BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?)
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Just on the SBW/Crotty debate. So far on tour what i have seen is the teams that have beaten the Lions have done so through the use of "x-factor" backs breaking them open.
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable. And i don't see the need to wait 60 minutes to do it either. Put them under scoreboard pressure early, and make them play a game they look less comfortable doing.
If we start SBW, the question then becomes, is Crotty the best bench option?
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Yeah, I've changed to SBW starting due to form and fitness. He was running hard and straight against Samoa, if he does that he's going to draw a lot of defense and he has the ability to offload in traffic to free up others.
If we don't have Crotty on the bench then we really need SBW/ALB to play 80 minutes, unless we trust Rieko to cover centre in the event of an injury. I'd prefer Crotty for test one - he's reliable as fuck - and depending how that goes Rieko could come onto the bench for test two.
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Just on the SBW/Crotty debate. So far on tour what i have seen is the teams that have beaten the Lions have done so through the use of "x-factor" backs breaking them open.
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable. And i don't see the need to wait 60 minutes to do it either. Put them under scoreboard pressure early, and make them play a game they look less comfortable doing.
If we start SBW, the question then becomes, is Crotty the best bench option?
Yes. I think he's better than the other options, unless they want to go full beast mode and run out Laumape in the last 20.
After last week, I'm not quite as convinced about Rieko nailing his winger duties enough to go to the bench - and cover midfield as well - especially when we have Barrett who can go back to 15 and B smith to the wing. So, midfield cover is crucial.
For me, Crotty covers SBW playing badly, injury at 12/13, and can come on for whoever is buggered or needs to be pulled.
Laumape is risky, but could be awesome in the last 20. Laumape and ALB could be unbelievable - want to see that at some stage.
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Yeah, I've changed to SBW starting due to form and fitness. He was running hard and straight against Samoa, if he does that he's going to draw a lot of defense and he has the ability to offload in traffic to free up others.
If we don't have Crotty on the bench then we really need SBW/ALB to play 80 minutes, unless we trust Rieko to cover centre in the event of an injury. I'd prefer Crotty for test one - he's reliable as fuck - and depending how that goes Rieko could come onto the bench for test two.
Ha ha. Snap.
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While we rate crotty highly in nz ,
I reckon the lions might be doing high fives to see him named ahead of sbw. ,
Not rocket science but End of the day I think our forwards hold the key anyway , if the Lions fail to get dominance up front , I think we are in the box seat , if they do , its going to be difficult to win on scraps .
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I'd go with Crotty on the bench. It's going to be wet and hugely intense and I think Crotty's accuracy and skillset needs to be in the 23.
Especially when the other options are a couple of 20 year old outside backs who still have some rough edges (Jordie defence, Rieko high ball take). There's plenty of other x factor players already on the bench (Charlie, Ardie, Perenara). Don't overthink it - pick all 3 of SBW, ALB and Crotty in the 23.
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I think it's going to be like the second Ireland test of 2016. Massive intensity, possible yellows for NZ, and the ABs still squeaking out a win, and deal well with the stifling rush defence.
Match report because allblacks.com thinks we're more interested in fluffy pregame articles than a match report. Bah humbug.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11751541That's the good scenario for the Lions. The other one is that we start to find some rhythm, passes stick and the Lions have to start chasing the game. If that happens, things could get ugly out there.
All in all, it's going to be a titanic tussle up front. Can't wait (and want to get 1-0 up before the French Refs blow something bizarre from somewhere. You know it's going to happen)
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certainly an intriguing match coming up.
Lions have taken their time getting into their work but showing some good signs in the last week.
ABs always a bit rusty this time of year, but I expect the hit-out v Samoa will have done the world of good for plenty of the team, so as others have mentioned, all signs point to this being a classic encounter.
Hope the weather plays ball and we see a good game of footy, not ruined by the officials or any controversial call.
Moody, Taylor, Franks, BBBBR, Whitelock, Kaino, Cane, Read, Smith, BB, Savea, Crotty, ALB, Dagg, Smith
Is who I would pick, but as per the earlier article, ABs may be looking at SBW, not least Crotty is coming off an injury lay up.
The oft off-side rush defence vs the ABs creative blocking.
Bring it on.
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I tend to agree with that article that SBW is a lock to start - particularly with Crotty not having played for a while. I reckon they'll go SBW-ALB. Heard Hansen saying at the start of the week that they're keen to have a 1,2,3 midfield punch, which points to Crotty on the bench.
But, I suggested at the weekend that Jordie might make it instead and it still won't surprise me. Reason being that we know that Murray's bombs are going to be a key part of the attack - so assuming a back three of Savea, Dagg, Ben- we've got that hopefully well covered with two fullbacks and a power winger. But, if one of those guys is injured or exposed - then what?
Let's say Ben Smith gets injured early. Dagg to fullback - but, who joins the bomb squad? Crotty? Ioane? Beauden?
Well, Beauden is most qualified, but do you really want to be shifting him early? I don't.
Assuming he's fit and it sounds like he is - I guess it probably will be Crotty - but, I reckon there's a good case for Jordie!
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I tend to agree with that article that SBW is a lock to start - particularly with Crotty not having played for a while. I reckon they'll go SBW-ALB. Heard Hansen saying at the start of the week that they're keen to have a 1,2,3 midfield punch, which points to Crotty on the bench.
But, I suggested at the weekend that Jordie might make it instead and it still won't surprise me. Reason being that we know that Murray's bombs are going to be a key part of the attack - so assuming a back three of Savea, Dagg, Ben- we've got that hopefully well covered with two fullbacks and a power winger. But, if one of those guys is injured or exposed - then what?
Let's say Ben Smith gets injured early. Dagg to fullback - but, who joins the bomb squad? Crotty? Ioane? Beauden?
Well, Beauden is most qualified, but do you really want to be shifting him early? I don't.
Assuming he's fit and it sounds like he is - I guess it probably will be Crotty - but, I reckon there's a good case for Jordie!
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@KiwiMurph That's what I would do, as well - but, it's quite a major shift and something I think the Lions would be pretty happy about.
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Just on the SBW/Crotty debate. So far on tour what i have seen is the teams that have beaten the Lions have done so through the use of "x-factor" backs breaking them open.
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable. And i don't see the need to wait 60 minutes to do it either. Put them under scoreboard pressure early, and make them play a game they look less comfortable doing.
If we start SBW, the question then becomes, is Crotty the best bench option?
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
I was hugely impressed by SBW for the Blues, but his option taking is still ropey at times. Against Samoa, he blew the final try when a regulation pass before contact would have easily sufficed but instead chose to take contact and offload forward. And in the first half he had ALB free on his inside but again chose to take contact and throw a poor flick out the back in contact that fortuitously fell on Barrett's foot. If it wasn't for Barrett's ridiculous skillset that would have been a blown try too.
These seem like minor qualms but the All Blacks have been successful by nailing the basics first and foremost. That means making the pass at the right time, not by executing miracle balls, even if they do happen occasionally too.
If they are happy with Crotty's fitness then I'd start him. He is still ahead on the pecking order, Maybe if SBW didn't choose to play sevens last year, he'd be number one...
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My 2c...
SBDub at 12.
Purely for the physicality both offence and defence.
I don't see a creative Lions midfield so we want big strong bloke make hard tackle plus big strong bloke on BB shoulder for bail out go forward when under pressure from Warrenball rush defence.
My first choice at 13 was Crotty but he's been out for a couple of weeks and ALB was awesome.
Crotty on the bench works for me.
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@Frye in the post match interview when Hansen was talking about the midfield combo he mentioned the need to pass the ball before contact, instead of taking contact and trying the offload, so I don't think the point you make about SBW was lost on him.
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I don't understand why everyone keeps suggesting that Crotty missed too much game time to get a start. Thus far this season, he has missed only 3 Crusaders games (the Sunwolves game on 14 April, the Rebels game on 27 May, and the Lions game on 10 June) after getting injured during the game a week earlier.
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this is brilliant...
write an article about spying, then also add
There is no suggestion that the All Blacks would be involved in such underhand tactics.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11880132
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@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
I was hugely impressed by SBW for the Blues, but his option taking is still ropey at times. Against Samoa, he blew the final try when a regulation pass before contact would have easily sufficed but instead chose to take contact and offload forward. And in the first half he had ALB free on his inside but again chose to take contact and throw a poor flick out the back in contact that fortuitously fell on Barrett's foot. If it wasn't for Barrett's ridiculous skillset that would have been a blown try too.
These seem like minor qualms but the All Blacks have been successful by nailing the basics first and foremost. That means making the pass at the right time, not by executing miracle balls, even if they do happen occasionally too.
If they are happy with Crotty's fitness then I'd start him. He is still ahead on the pecking order, Maybe if SBW didn't choose to play sevens last year, he'd be number one...
@Frye said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
And we risk then being beaten like the Crusaders. And not win like the Blues.
Beauden has shown all season he needs space. He ain't going to get it.
Our wingers, assuming we go with Dagg and Julian will struggle to break the line just man on man (Savea will bend it, sure, but not break it).
So where are our tries coming from? I think we need real threats in midfield. If we drop an offload, they are unlikely to pounce fast enough to matter, but if they stick we should be able to convert.
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
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@Frye said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
And we risk then being beaten like the Crusaders. And not win like the Blues.
Beauden has shown all season he needs space. He ain't going to get it.
Our wingers, assuming we go with Dagg and Julian will struggle to break the line just man on man (Savea will bend it, sure, but not break it).
So where are our tries coming from? I think we need real threats in midfield. If we drop an offload, they are unlikely to pounce fast enough to matter, but if they stick we should be able to convert.
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
@Chester-Draws said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
I'd say though that every back in the ABs is a level or two above teh Crusaders. Except maybe Dagg.
Also don't forget the Saders loosies and backs are used to getting ball on a plate by the outstanding tight 5. So if they don't get clear dominance, then it's a bit unfamiliar. The Blues, on the other hand, are well used to shite ball.
Also, Aaron Smith>> Bryn Hall. Flat passes to SBW with runners ... you know yuo want it
Throw in a bit of yelling about offside, and boom. Two tries and we should get enoguh penalties to win
