BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?)
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Just on the SBW/Crotty debate. So far on tour what i have seen is the teams that have beaten the Lions have done so through the use of "x-factor" backs breaking them open.
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable. And i don't see the need to wait 60 minutes to do it either. Put them under scoreboard pressure early, and make them play a game they look less comfortable doing.
If we start SBW, the question then becomes, is Crotty the best bench option?
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
I was hugely impressed by SBW for the Blues, but his option taking is still ropey at times. Against Samoa, he blew the final try when a regulation pass before contact would have easily sufficed but instead chose to take contact and offload forward. And in the first half he had ALB free on his inside but again chose to take contact and throw a poor flick out the back in contact that fortuitously fell on Barrett's foot. If it wasn't for Barrett's ridiculous skillset that would have been a blown try too.
These seem like minor qualms but the All Blacks have been successful by nailing the basics first and foremost. That means making the pass at the right time, not by executing miracle balls, even if they do happen occasionally too.
If they are happy with Crotty's fitness then I'd start him. He is still ahead on the pecking order, Maybe if SBW didn't choose to play sevens last year, he'd be number one...
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My 2c...
SBDub at 12.
Purely for the physicality both offence and defence.
I don't see a creative Lions midfield so we want big strong bloke make hard tackle plus big strong bloke on BB shoulder for bail out go forward when under pressure from Warrenball rush defence.
My first choice at 13 was Crotty but he's been out for a couple of weeks and ALB was awesome.
Crotty on the bench works for me.
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@Frye in the post match interview when Hansen was talking about the midfield combo he mentioned the need to pass the ball before contact, instead of taking contact and trying the offload, so I don't think the point you make about SBW was lost on him.
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I don't understand why everyone keeps suggesting that Crotty missed too much game time to get a start. Thus far this season, he has missed only 3 Crusaders games (the Sunwolves game on 14 April, the Rebels game on 27 May, and the Lions game on 10 June) after getting injured during the game a week earlier.
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this is brilliant...
write an article about spying, then also add
There is no suggestion that the All Blacks would be involved in such underhand tactics.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11880132
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@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
I was hugely impressed by SBW for the Blues, but his option taking is still ropey at times. Against Samoa, he blew the final try when a regulation pass before contact would have easily sufficed but instead chose to take contact and offload forward. And in the first half he had ALB free on his inside but again chose to take contact and throw a poor flick out the back in contact that fortuitously fell on Barrett's foot. If it wasn't for Barrett's ridiculous skillset that would have been a blown try too.
These seem like minor qualms but the All Blacks have been successful by nailing the basics first and foremost. That means making the pass at the right time, not by executing miracle balls, even if they do happen occasionally too.
If they are happy with Crotty's fitness then I'd start him. He is still ahead on the pecking order, Maybe if SBW didn't choose to play sevens last year, he'd be number one...
@Frye said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
And we risk then being beaten like the Crusaders. And not win like the Blues.
Beauden has shown all season he needs space. He ain't going to get it.
Our wingers, assuming we go with Dagg and Julian will struggle to break the line just man on man (Savea will bend it, sure, but not break it).
So where are our tries coming from? I think we need real threats in midfield. If we drop an offload, they are unlikely to pounce fast enough to matter, but if they stick we should be able to convert.
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
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@Frye said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
And we risk then being beaten like the Crusaders. And not win like the Blues.
Beauden has shown all season he needs space. He ain't going to get it.
Our wingers, assuming we go with Dagg and Julian will struggle to break the line just man on man (Savea will bend it, sure, but not break it).
So where are our tries coming from? I think we need real threats in midfield. If we drop an offload, they are unlikely to pounce fast enough to matter, but if they stick we should be able to convert.
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
@Chester-Draws said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
I'd say though that every back in the ABs is a level or two above teh Crusaders. Except maybe Dagg.
Also don't forget the Saders loosies and backs are used to getting ball on a plate by the outstanding tight 5. So if they don't get clear dominance, then it's a bit unfamiliar. The Blues, on the other hand, are well used to shite ball.
Also, Aaron Smith>> Bryn Hall. Flat passes to SBW with runners ... you know yuo want it
Throw in a bit of yelling about offside, and boom. Two tries and we should get enoguh penalties to win -
@Chester-Draws said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
I'd say though that every back in the ABs is a level or two above teh Crusaders. Except maybe Dagg.
Also don't forget the Saders loosies and backs are used to getting ball on a plate by the outstanding tight 5. So if they don't get clear dominance, then it's a bit unfamiliar. The Blues, on the other hand, are well used to shite ball.
Also, Aaron Smith>> Bryn Hall. Flat passes to SBW with runners ... you know yuo want it
Throw in a bit of yelling about offside, and boom. Two tries and we should get enoguh penalties to win@nzzp not to mention the AB coaches (plus those Crusaders that were unable to learn in that game) will have learnt much since then.
The ABs will have a plan to counter the BI game, executing it is the thing, expect they will also have a way to combat the rush defence too (short of making sure the ref polices the off-side correctly)
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@nzzp not to mention the AB coaches (plus those Crusaders that were unable to learn in that game) will have learnt much since then.
The ABs will have a plan to counter the BI game, executing it is the thing, expect they will also have a way to combat the rush defence too (short of making sure the ref polices the off-side correctly)
@taniwharugby said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@nzzp not to mention the AB coaches (plus those Crusaders that were unable to learn in that game) will have learnt much since then.
The ABs will have a plan to counter the BI game, executing it is the thing, expect they will also have a way to combat the rush defence too (short of making sure the ref polices the off-side correctly)
It amazes me how many people want chips in behind the line. Play what's in front of you , heads up, look for space and good god I sound like Robbie Deans. FML.
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@taniwharugby said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@nzzp not to mention the AB coaches (plus those Crusaders that were unable to learn in that game) will have learnt much since then.
The ABs will have a plan to counter the BI game, executing it is the thing, expect they will also have a way to combat the rush defence too (short of making sure the ref polices the off-side correctly)
It amazes me how many people want chips in behind the line. Play what's in front of you , heads up, look for space and good god I sound like Robbie Deans. FML.
@nzzp getting through multiple phases and forcing thier d line to readjust constantly will put pressure on it retaining its shape as well, this is something the Maori failed to do, and our pack and backs will test thier d much more.
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It's the same defence that Ireland use. We beat them.
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the maori backline had plenty of x-factor, that didn't work out so well.
a fair bit of that was to do with the forwards, but a fair bit was also due to their shit kicking, shit handling of the high ball, and high error rate. but x factor, oh shit, they had loads of it. if only they hadn't been under pressure and had been playing against chumps... they could have x-factored their way to a hundred i reckon.fuck i hope we don't go down the path of chip kicks. against a well-organised rush defence (which they have) with a good halfback, fullback and loosies (which they have), they just aren't a high percentage play, and give the ball away too often. then we don't have the ball and are relying on them to make errors so we can score off turnovers. the basic idea ought to be that they can't rush if they're back-pedalling, so we need to get momentum / make breaks in close to buy the time to make breaks wider out.
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The thing which has to be understood about the Saracens rush defence, which is what I believe Farrell (A) has based Lions D on, is that kicking is a huge component. It is most designed to accumulate penalties when frustrated oppositions attempt to force things in their own half.
The game management skills of opposition 10 are key. On slow ball in own half where Lions have got the rush on 10 needs to kick long and have chasers. DMac and Beaver didn't manage this well.
Lions reply will be high balls and disciplined chasers: hence Gats concern with blocking.
From fast rucks, ball movement is the rush's Achilles' Heel. For example, spreading out means compromising close in D (check out early parts ABs v Ireland in 2013) so passes inside can work. Likewise a tendency to get narrow means double miss (Highlanders, etc.) can open them up wide.
Need for BB to make good decisions would be an argument for starting with Crotty, who is an excellent reader of the game.
On balance that's how I'd start, with SBW to come on around the 40. Seem to remember that working well previously!
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X factor? It's getting a bit weird here where people have completely blanked Crottys play the last year or two. The guy creates plenty of space in the midfield with guile and isn't exactly incapable of making yards up the middle. Plus his combo with ALB was fantastic for the ABs.
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The AB forward pack is good enough to handle the Lions forwards. We have a strong set piece which has allowed us to score try's. I think we will take them on up front and pick go around the ruck which gets the backs on their heels and then we can go wide.
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@Frye said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
And we risk then being beaten like the Crusaders. And not win like the Blues.
Beauden has shown all season he needs space. He ain't going to get it.
Our wingers, assuming we go with Dagg and Julian will struggle to break the line just man on man (Savea will bend it, sure, but not break it).
So where are our tries coming from? I think we need real threats in midfield. If we drop an offload, they are unlikely to pounce fast enough to matter, but if they stick we should be able to convert.
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
@Chester-Draws said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@Frye said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
@mariner4life said in BIL & AB teams for Test #1 (AKA - who's impressing you at the moment?):
The Lions aren't going to squash our forwards like they did to the Maori, and last night as well. The Blues, while early in the tour, matched them up front (and even shaded them in certain areas) but were able to break the Lions open with skill. That last try to win it was fucking great, but also high risk on a couple of occasions.
I am not overly concerned about the need for a rock solid defensive midfield, as i don't think they are bringing anything any of our midfield options would be able to deal with. However someone who can unlock that rush defense with an in-contact offload would be invaluable.
Something has gone badly wrong if we are relying on that level of magic to win this test. I'm surprised to hear the "x" word popup considering the dark days we used to live in, where the ball would be shoveled out to our flair players in a vain hope that they did something with it.
And we risk then being beaten like the Crusaders. And not win like the Blues.
Beauden has shown all season he needs space. He ain't going to get it.
Our wingers, assuming we go with Dagg and Julian will struggle to break the line just man on man (Savea will bend it, sure, but not break it).
So where are our tries coming from? I think we need real threats in midfield. If we drop an offload, they are unlikely to pounce fast enough to matter, but if they stick we should be able to convert.
The Crusaders found that no matter how good your forwards, lack of real penetration in the backs will have us lose.
The Crusaders did create limited opportunities through our young centre Goodhue, we just didn't finish them off. But I agree we didn't make enough of them and that is where we sorely missed Crotty. He does create the space and he (and Todd) really know how to keep the ball alive.
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is it just me , or does this gatland coached side remind you of the boks of a few years ago ,
the rush defense , and plenty of up and unders with chasers
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I actually think its a blessing in disguise the Crusaders got showed up by the Lions ,
Im expecting a few of our tight forwards go into this game with a point to prove
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is it just me , or does this gatland coached side remind you of the boks of a few years ago ,
the rush defense , and plenty of up and unders with chasers
@kiwiinmelb The 2009 Boks? Yes.
