All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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After reading and hearing a lot of the post test and post midweek game media in the UK a couple of things puzzle me.
First is the adamant suggestion that Itoje will bring more grunt and steel to the Lions pack. The guy is a ruck leaner with an eye for an opportunity. It's like the Tuqiri syndrome all over again. Remember when everytime he got the ball the comms would cream themselves as he beat tackle after tackle while crabbing across the field being very ineffective? Itoje is like that. Has a couple of big noticable moments but is otherwise a passenger.
The other thing is Liam Williams. Yes, he started off a very good try that derserved a bit of hyperbole, but his net effect on the scoreboard was -2 wasn't it? I can't see the ABs giving him the same opportunity again but I can see him giving them one like he did with Rieko's try. I'm guessing his net contribution will be at least -7 this time around.@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
After reading and hearing a lot of the post test and post midweek game media in the UK a couple of things puzzle me.
First is the adamant suggestion that Itoje will bring more grunt and steel to the Lions pack. The guy is a ruck leaner with an eye for an opportunity. It's like the Tuqiri syndrome all over again.To me it looked more like Cribb Disorder, but the two are similar - hard to tell.
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@rotated @Crucial I've heard more that he will bring some dynamism to the pack and I think that's a fair assessment. He is not though, the archetypal grunting lock, more like a hybrid 6/lock. He does bring turnover capability, more dynamic tackling, wider defence capability and line out steals. Whether this is a good trade off for the lack of ruck hitting and a lesser powered scrum is still be be decided.
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When's the team named please?
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Kristian Dacey has spoken and has been very positive about his experience
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/kristian-dacey-lions-interview-abuse-13249982
The best thing any of the Welsh players can do is experience different coaching and training environments. Will only make them better players.
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@rotated @Crucial I've heard more that he will bring some dynamism to the pack and I think that's a fair assessment. He is not though, the archetypal grunting lock, more like a hybrid 6/lock. He does bring turnover capability, more dynamic tackling, wider defence capability and line out steals. Whether this is a good trade off for the lack of ruck hitting and a lesser powered scrum is still be be decided.
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
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@rotated @Crucial I've heard more that he will bring some dynamism to the pack and I think that's a fair assessment. He is not though, the archetypal grunting lock, more like a hybrid 6/lock. He does bring turnover capability, more dynamic tackling, wider defence capability and line out steals. Whether this is a good trade off for the lack of ruck hitting and a lesser powered scrum is still be be decided.
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@rotated @Crucial I've heard more that he will bring some dynamism to the pack and I think that's a fair assessment. He is not though, the archetypal grunting lock, more like a hybrid 6/lock. He does bring turnover capability, more dynamic tackling, wider defence capability and line out steals. Whether this is a good trade off for the lack of ruck hitting and a lesser powered scrum is still be be decided.
I take your point but what is needed is someone to stop the ABs getting a roll on (stopping the rush defence) and do the hard work in tight.
TBF Itoje did bring a bit of that last week, but from the bench where he had sat winding himself up. Unless there is a strategy to tell him to go hard for 40 and then get replaced I can't see how starting him is the best option. Even then he is more effective in the latter stages so having Lawes and Kruis start with Itoje coming on later would seem the best plan to me. -
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
If not selected I think it'll be more a case of him having done a 70 minute shift, not slapping him on the wrists.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
Which is sad if true. I thought the technique and the way Henderson drove into the ruck to clean out would've been fine if it wasn't for Joseph lifting the other leg of Barrett. Henderson's head as you would expect was down and didn't see what Joseph was doing.
Just watching it again and it's strange to think what the hell Joseph was trying to do.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
If not selected I think it'll be more a case of him having done a 70 minute shift, not slapping him on the wrists.
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
If not selected I think it'll be more a case of him having done a 70 minute shift, not slapping him on the wrists.
But the minutes played was part and parcel of Gatland's 2nd test thinking. Obvious when Lawes was pulled.
Hopefully Henderson will get a chance in the dead rubber.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
Which is sad if true. I thought the technique and the way Henderson drove into the ruck to clean out would've been fine if it wasn't for Joseph lifting the other leg of Barrett. Henderson's head as you would expect was down and didn't see what Joseph was doing.
Just watching it again and it's strange to think what the hell Joseph was trying to do.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
Which is sad if true. I thought the technique and the way Henderson drove into the ruck to clean out would've been fine if it wasn't for Joseph lifting the other leg of Barrett. Henderson's head as you would expect was down and didn't see what Joseph was doing.
Just watching it again and it's strange to think what the hell Joseph was trying to do.
Yeah. Not Hendersons fault but just like that similar situation 12 years ago a freak coincidence of timing when two players went to do the same thing without noticing the other.
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if you ignore the yellow card, that was the best performance by any lions lock in any game on tour i reckon.
kruis does a lot of work, a lot of tackling, but lacks a bit of grunt. AWJ at his best is excellent, but he hasn't been there on tour. lawes i dunno, patchy. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
Which is sad if true. I thought the technique and the way Henderson drove into the ruck to clean out would've been fine if it wasn't for Joseph lifting the other leg of Barrett. Henderson's head as you would expect was down and didn't see what Joseph was doing.
Just watching it again and it's strange to think what the hell Joseph was trying to do.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
Which is sad if true. I thought the technique and the way Henderson drove into the ruck to clean out would've been fine if it wasn't for Joseph lifting the other leg of Barrett. Henderson's head as you would expect was down and didn't see what Joseph was doing.
Just watching it again and it's strange to think what the hell Joseph was trying to do.
It sounds to me like you have a reasonable and common sense explanation.
Personally I'm holding fast to my belief that Henderson is evil and deliberately set out to maim barrett. It's less intellectually challenging that way.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
Which is sad if true. I thought the technique and the way Henderson drove into the ruck to clean out would've been fine if it wasn't for Joseph lifting the other leg of Barrett. Henderson's head as you would expect was down and didn't see what Joseph was doing.
Just watching it again and it's strange to think what the hell Joseph was trying to do.
It sounds to me like you have a reasonable and common sense explanation.
Personally I'm holding fast to my belief that Henderson is evil and deliberately set out to maim barrett. It's less intellectually challenging that way.
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Catogrande I think he's a better impact player at this stage and given the other lock options in the squad. After his outing on Tuesday, I'd be looking at Henderson to start. Reminded me of James Ryan the way he moved ball in hand.
Henderson has been great and the type that the AB coaches would love to have in their squad. That said I really doubt gatland will use him. He seemed to have made up his mind it was all Hendersons fault against the Canes and will want to punish him.
Which is sad if true. I thought the technique and the way Henderson drove into the ruck to clean out would've been fine if it wasn't for Joseph lifting the other leg of Barrett. Henderson's head as you would expect was down and didn't see what Joseph was doing.
Just watching it again and it's strange to think what the hell Joseph was trying to do.
It sounds to me like you have a reasonable and common sense explanation.
Personally I'm holding fast to my belief that Henderson is evil and deliberately set out to maim barrett. It's less intellectually challenging that way.
Are there any pubs in NZ with signs outside saying Henderson & Joseph are banned? That's the only way I see justice being served.
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All Blacks team to play the British and Irish Lions in the second test:
- Israel Dagg 14. Waisake Naholo 13. Anton Lienert-Brown 12. Sonny Bill Williams 11. Rieko Ioane 10. Beauden Barrett 9. Aaron Smith 8. Kieran Read (c) 7. Sam Cane 6. Jerome Kaino 5. Sam Whitelock 4. Brodie Retallick 3. Owen Franks 2. Codie Taylor 1. Joe Moody
Reserves: Nathan Harris, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Scott Barrett, Ardie Savea, TJ Perenara, Aaron Cruden, Ngani Laumape
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Will Laumapes selection affect Gatlands plans or do you think he has already ditched the Sexton and Farrell idea?
Garland has his two strongest midfield defenders likely to start and Laumape will get to come on either against a change or a tiring combo. -
Awesome, like Laumape to the bench and hope Naholo continues the upward trend in form. IMO if they can build Laumape's distribution game like Noni's, watch out world.
Looking forward to seeing him and Barracuda paired on the EOYT...
One-two punch of him then Thompson will be knockout.
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i like the team ,
Shag going for the jugular .
