All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
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@canefan said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11888137
Garces and Poite shouldn't even be allowed to ref club rugby
The headline doesn't match the content of the article. Since they don't have the transcript of what Garces said, they can't make that assertion. Nonetheless, I had heard Poite say Oui, Jerome on his way back to bring captains together and wondered what Garces had said.
Poite made his decision of accidental on his view that the ball first hit Owens on the shoulder before he reflexively caught it with his left hand. That's what he is saying to Read.
@Pot-Hale said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Since they don't have the transcript of what Garces said, they can't make that assertion.
It's not a huge leap to assume that Garces influenced the decision between penalty and accidental offside as he was the only one to speak to him in that time.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Pot-Hale So that's still a penalty right?
No, I don't think so. I'm surmising here. If Poite is saying to Read that the ball hit Owens first on the shoulder then that is accidental offside. Handling it is secondary.
That's my assumption of what transpired. I can't see another reason as to why he would say that to Read when Read queried it.
@Pot-Hale said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@canefan said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Pot-Hale So that's still a penalty right?
No, I don't think so. I'm surmising here. If Poite is saying to Read that the ball hit Owens first on the shoulder then that is accidental offside. Handling it is secondary.
That's my assumption of what transpired. I can't see another reason as to why he would say that to Read when Read queried it.
so is that like when you make a tackle, initial contact hitting the chest, slides up and hits the jaw, the contact with the jaw is ok cos it's secondary?
Poite's decision (be it his own or Garces') was a factor in us losing, but there were numerous other factors (of our own doing) that caused us to be in that position to allow the ref to influence the outcome.
Game shoulda been out of reach after 40.
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The part of that match I got annoyed. After Laumape's breakaway when he is run down and throws an in field speculator that is intercepted by Watson. The All Black counter rucking was fucking pathetic, I was literally yelling "ruck it you fucking pussies".
Eventually Julian did put in a good effort, too good as he blew right past the ball and Lions secured it a second time. The fact that he was able to do this so easily, yet so late, shows how wide open they were while several All Blacks stood their like passive statues. Eventually was a very easy clearance by Murray.
Mitigation was that this was after an extraordinary period of end to end action.
But gee they lacked some killer instinct there. At least they didn't blow over it POC style and concede a cheap penalty while hot on attack.
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Apologies if this has been raised already but why did we not setup for a drop goal at the death? We had 3? capable kickers that could do it. We were right in front not far out. I'm assuming most top teams would have gone for this instead of spreading it wide? Didn't we get into the goat a few moons ago about ignoring drop goals?
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Apologies if this has been raised already but why did we not setup for a drop goal at the death? We had 3? capable kickers that could do it. We were right in front not far out. I'm assuming most top teams would have gone for this instead of spreading it wide? Didn't we get into the goat a few moons ago about ignoring drop goals?
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Apologies if this has been raised already but why did we not setup for a drop goal at the death. We had 3? capable kickers that could do it. We were right in front not far out. I'm assuming most top teams would have gone for this instead of spreading it wide? Didn't we get into the goat a few moons ago about ignoring drop goals?
It hasn't really been discussed and is a fair point, especially when Jordie seems to be able to whack them over from anywhere.
Hindsight I guess...
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Apologies if this has been raised already but why did we not setup for a drop goal at the death? We had 3? capable kickers that could do it. We were right in front not far out. I'm assuming most top teams would have gone for this instead of spreading it wide? Didn't we get into the goat a few moons ago about ignoring drop goals?
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Apologies if this has been raised already but why did we not setup for a drop goal at the death?
Because TJP was seagulling and watching the scrum instead of the ball. Failed to do his basic job. He's been so good for the Canes and against Samoa, but fark me he's been headless when he comes on for the ABs.
Aaron's still number one, and by some margin
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Apologies if this has been raised already but why did we not setup for a drop goal at the death. We had 3? capable kickers that could do it. We were right in front not far out. I'm assuming most top teams would have gone for this instead of spreading it wide? Didn't we get into the goat a few moons ago about ignoring drop goals?
It hasn't really been discussed and is a fair point, especially when Jordie seems to be able to whack them over from anywhere.
Hindsight I guess...
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Apologies if this has been raised already but why did we not setup for a drop goal at the death. We had 3? capable kickers that could do it. We were right in front not far out. I'm assuming most top teams would have gone for this instead of spreading it wide? Didn't we get into the goat a few moons ago about ignoring drop goals?
It hasn't really been discussed and is a fair point, especially when Jordie seems to be able to whack them over from anywhere.
Hindsight I guess...
Did you see what he did when the first half ended? He was pushed into touch near the halfway, then turned around and kicked the ball right through the posts. He has some freakish skills.
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Poite's wasn't the biggest individual error of the night.
Savea dropping a sitter, and Barrett missing from in front were the biggest game defining errors of the night. Somewhere in behind those 2 clangers and Poite would be Smith's supersonic pop pass from the tighthead.
I have real doubts about Savea's big game temperament, almost a carbon copy of him fluffing the 2015 SR final.
Barrett I have doubts about his goal kicking, well duh ...... but I don't doubt his game temperament, although the ultra flat backline is high risk high reward but he has plenty of other parts to his game.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Apologies if this has been raised already but why did we not setup for a drop goal at the death?
Because TJP was seagulling and watching the scrum instead of the ball. Failed to do his basic job. He's been so good for the Canes and against Samoa, but fark me he's been headless when he comes on for the ABs.
Aaron's still number one, and by some margin
@nzzp what this series showed is that Aaron Smith is back and TJ is still some ways off.
I think Smith needed to stay on in test 2 & 3, he did stay longer in #3, but as Woodward pointed out in #2, this was a turning point in that game when Smith went and TJ came on.
Sometimes you do wonder about subs whether they are done tactically or just cos...it certainly felt like TJ and Scott Barrett subs on Saturday were done just cos.
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@nzzp what this series showed is that Aaron Smith is back and TJ is still some ways off.
I think Smith needed to stay on in test 2 & 3, he did stay longer in #3, but as Woodward pointed out in #2, this was a turning point in that game when Smith went and TJ came on.
Sometimes you do wonder about subs whether they are done tactically or just cos...it certainly felt like TJ and Scott Barrett subs on Saturday were done just cos.
I can't back this up but I think that when Smith was at his best before he had that small crash in form, he would indicate when he was ready to be subbed in that he would use everything in the tank.
It really raised my eyebrows when I read the article when ever it was.
I'm not sure that holds true at the moment though as Smith did seem a bit miffed over being subbed
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@MiketheSnow
Sorry, I disagree, Read didn't make the Lions player fall, it was his other team mate unbalancing him, and a hollywood where he lifted his legs and flopped on the ground.It was an appalling decision. Poite clearly lied twice. He said we have a deal, meaning the umpires have an agreement. However, that is not what he said to the video ref (I did not hear him talk to Garces). Then, he said to both captains that 16 red didn't play at the ball, it just touched him on the shoulder accidentally, so they play the knock on.
We also lost 15 seconds of gametime before they stopped the clock.
The other thing is he did not give any advantage, and ALB was away.
Sorry, but one or two lies and inability to apply advantage, or stop the clock quickly. An incompetent performance.
@Wairau said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow
Sorry, I disagree, Read didn't make the Lions player fall, it was his other team mate unbalancing him, and a hollywood where he lifted his legs and flopped on the ground.It was an appalling decision. Poite clearly lied twice. He said we have a deal, meaning the umpires have an agreement. However, that is not what he said to the video ref (I did not hear him talk to Garces). Then, he said to both captains that 16 red didn't play at the ball, it just touched him on the shoulder accidentally, so they play the knock on.
We also lost 15 seconds of gametime before they stopped the clock.
The other thing is he did not give any advantage, and ALB was away.
Sorry, but one or two lies and inability to apply advantage, or stop the clock quickly. An incompetent performance.
When have I said that the final decision was incorrect?
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Poite's wasn't the biggest individual error of the night.
Savea dropping a sitter, and Barrett missing from in front were the biggest game defining errors of the night. Somewhere in behind those 2 clangers and Poite would be Smith's supersonic pop pass from the tighthead.
I have real doubts about Savea's big game temperament, almost a carbon copy of him fluffing the 2015 SR final.
Barrett I have doubts about his goal kicking, well duh ...... but I don't doubt his game temperament, although the ultra flat backline is high risk high reward but he has plenty of other parts to his game.
It is funny, Beaudie seems to have a great temperament when the pressure is on but he just is not a consistent goal kicker. Fluffs them at the beginning as much as at the end. Ultimately we have to have a goal kicking full-back or Beaudie goes to 15 and we have a goal-kicking 10. I really hate having to move Ben Smith to the wing but you feel like we might be heading there.
Savea had some really good moments but for me his drop and his dreadful support line of Laumape was criminal.
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It is funny, Beaudie seems to have a great temperament when the pressure is on but he just is not a consistent goal kicker. Fluffs them at the beginning as much as at the end. Ultimately we have to have a goal kicking full-back or Beaudie goes to 15 and we have a goal-kicking 10. I really hate having to move Ben Smith to the wing but you feel like we might be heading there.
Savea had some really good moments but for me his drop and his dreadful support line of Laumape was criminal.
@DMX said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
It is funny, Beaudie seems to have a great temperament when the pressure is on but he just is not a consistent goal kicker. Fluffs them at the beginning as much as at the end. Ultimately we have to have a goal kicking full-back or Beaudie goes to 15 and we have a goal-kicking 10. I really hate having to move Ben Smith to the wing but you feel like we might be heading there.
Savea had some really good moments but for me his drop and his dreadful support line of Laumape was criminal.
It needs its own thread, I'll start one .......
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If Savea had hands on Saturday, I reckon we win that at a canter, he looked really up for it, except for his ability to catch.
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Metres per game
All Blacks - 409
Lions - 330
All Blacks leader - Rieko Ioane 45.3
Lions leader - Jonathan Davies 57http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11888331
That's interesting as it provides a bit of support for the argument I've been having with my welsh coworker.
We've been talking about who we would choose as the man of the series, and I think it has to be Davies. My colleague is picking Farrell, which is also understandable.
I was choosing Davies based on his work on D - making the rush work is fucking hard for a 13 and he was excellent - only getting undone once that I can remember by a fantastic offload.
His attack stats in that article also show how well he did making our midfield have a hard time too. Just brilliant.
He's the first player I'd have brought across to the ABs too I reckon (not the only one either).
Slightly off topic (maybe we can split), but who would others choose?
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That's interesting as it provides a bit of support for the argument I've been having with my welsh coworker.
We've been talking about who we would choose as the man of the series, and I think it has to be Davies. My colleague is picking Farrell, which is also understandable.
I was choosing Davies based on his work on D - making the rush work is fucking hard for a 13 and he was excellent - only getting undone once that I can remember by a fantastic offload.
His attack stats in that article also show how well he did making our midfield have a hard time too. Just brilliant.
He's the first player I'd have brought across to the ABs too I reckon (not the only one either).
Slightly off topic (maybe we can split), but who would others choose?
