All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
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There is some onus on players too, there was a super rugby a few weeks back, think it was Sam Cane and one of the Chiefs props asked ot be taken for HIA.
IIRC Cane passed the protocols but he said he didnt feel right so stayed off.
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I reckon Poite got it right. Now I expect that to go down on here like a glass of warm urine, but nonetheless I feel like I can back it up.
I also think it's fair that AB fans feel a bit aggrieved. I would if it happened to the Wallabies. For me it was a genuine 50/50 call, with a lot of grey areas. I've written more about it here if you are really desperate for more (the comments are quite interesting).
At the very least, his decision to call a scrum is justifiable under law 11. It's miles from a Wayne Barnes forward pass scenario, or even a Bryce Lawrence at the 2011 RWC QF scenario.
It's a fascinating discussion once you remove the emotion. Really comes back to the idea of intent and what it is to 'play the ball'.
@barbarian Nothing wrong with your analysis honestly, but you have made one massive glaring omission.
Poite blew the whistle stopping play, when the AB's were in a strong attacking position - I'm not convinced like others that ALB was through, as the tackle on him was half hearted, but you cannot deny that we had awesome attacking go-forward ball, against a broken defensive line, with defense back tracking & offence charging forwards.
He blew that whistle, as I'm sure he thought at that point that Black would want the penalty. So he stifled the great attacking chance for the penalty. And then he took that penalty away because he didn't have the nuts (anybody can say what they want, but he changed his mind because he didn't have the balls to make the decision that was in front of him).
It was a shambles, a shafting, and honestly nothing but a complete fuckin debacle. It's a shame, as up until that point, he'd had a great game.
They say the greats come to the fore when it matters, when the pressure is on. Poite proved beyond any doubt that he doesn't have what it takes.
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@barbarian Nothing wrong with your analysis honestly, but you have made one massive glaring omission.
Poite blew the whistle stopping play, when the AB's were in a strong attacking position - I'm not convinced like others that ALB was through, as the tackle on him was half hearted, but you cannot deny that we had awesome attacking go-forward ball, against a broken defensive line, with defense back tracking & offence charging forwards.
He blew that whistle, as I'm sure he thought at that point that Black would want the penalty. So he stifled the great attacking chance for the penalty. And then he took that penalty away because he didn't have the nuts (anybody can say what they want, but he changed his mind because he didn't have the balls to make the decision that was in front of him).
It was a shambles, a shafting, and honestly nothing but a complete fuckin debacle. It's a shame, as up until that point, he'd had a great game.
They say the greats come to the fore when it matters, when the pressure is on. Poite proved beyond any doubt that he doesn't have what it takes.
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@MajorRage I don't know if I have a poor memory, but you don't often gripe about refs or ABs getting the shaft, so that's rather telling for me.
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@MiketheSnow Davies was immense on attack and defence and played every minute of the series. So glad he was names man of series ahead of the wankstain that is Itoje.
Don't get the love for him in the NH press and amongst Lions fans. He reminds me of Frank Bruno. Superb physical athlete just a shame he doesn't know how to play the game. I'm undoubtedly over-reacting but he strikes me as a bit meh and would add nothing to the AB's. Gladly have Davies in midfield though.
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow Davies was immense on attack and defence and played every minute of the series. So glad he was names man of series ahead of the wankstain that is Itoje.
Don't get the love for him in the NH press and amongst Lions fans. He reminds me of Frank Bruno. Superb physical athlete just a shame he doesn't know how to play the game. I'm undoubtedly over-reacting but he strikes me as a bit meh and would add nothing to the AB's. Gladly have Davies in midfield though.
He's getting incredible hype in the NH. Just the other day there was silly talk about him being the first million pound player in the world. Why would someone say that other than to purposely hype him up?! Knowing the media its probably another case of reverse racism. Not Itoje's fault.
I thought Henderson should have gotten a game at least as a sub.
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow Davies was immense on attack and defence and played every minute of the series. So glad he was names man of series ahead of the wankstain that is Itoje.
Don't get the love for him in the NH press and amongst Lions fans. He reminds me of Frank Bruno. Superb physical athlete just a shame he doesn't know how to play the game. I'm undoubtedly over-reacting but he strikes me as a bit meh and would add nothing to the AB's. Gladly have Davies in midfield though.
He's getting incredible hype in the NH. Just the other day there was silly talk about him being the first million pound player in the world. Why would someone say that other than to purposely hype him up?! Knowing the media its probably another case of reverse racism. Not Itoje's fault.
I thought Henderson should have gotten a game at least as a sub.
@profitius I thought Itoje was pretty good in the last test, but he was poor in the second yet was getting plaudits from NH fans and media. I agree that Henderson should have got a run at some stage.
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow Davies was immense on attack and defence and played every minute of the series. So glad he was names man of series ahead of the wankstain that is Itoje.
Don't get the love for him in the NH press and amongst Lions fans. He reminds me of Frank Bruno. Superb physical athlete just a shame he doesn't know how to play the game. I'm undoubtedly over-reacting but he strikes me as a bit meh and would add nothing to the AB's. Gladly have Davies in midfield though.
He's getting incredible hype in the NH. Just the other day there was silly talk about him being the first million pound player in the world. Why would someone say that other than to purposely hype him up?! Knowing the media its probably another case of reverse racism. Not Itoje's fault.
I thought Henderson should have gotten a game at least as a sub.
@profitius said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow Davies was immense on attack and defence and played every minute of the series. So glad he was names man of series ahead of the wankstain that is Itoje.
Don't get the love for him in the NH press and amongst Lions fans. He reminds me of Frank Bruno. Superb physical athlete just a shame he doesn't know how to play the game. I'm undoubtedly over-reacting but he strikes me as a bit meh and would add nothing to the AB's. Gladly have Davies in midfield though.
He's getting incredible hype in the NH. Just the other day there was silly talk about him being the first million pound player in the world. Why would someone say that other than to purposely hype him up?! Knowing the media its probably another case of reverse racism. Not Itoje's fault.
I thought Henderson should have gotten a game at least as a sub.
Someone will surely pay big bucks for his cloaking device. How else could he be that far offside so many times and not be pinged?
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@barbarian Nothing wrong with your analysis honestly, but you have made one massive glaring omission.
Poite blew the whistle stopping play, when the AB's were in a strong attacking position - I'm not convinced like others that ALB was through, as the tackle on him was half hearted, but you cannot deny that we had awesome attacking go-forward ball, against a broken defensive line, with defense back tracking & offence charging forwards.
He blew that whistle, as I'm sure he thought at that point that Black would want the penalty. So he stifled the great attacking chance for the penalty. And then he took that penalty away because he didn't have the nuts (anybody can say what they want, but he changed his mind because he didn't have the balls to make the decision that was in front of him).
It was a shambles, a shafting, and honestly nothing but a complete fuckin debacle. It's a shame, as up until that point, he'd had a great game.
They say the greats come to the fore when it matters, when the pressure is on. Poite proved beyond any doubt that he doesn't have what it takes.
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
he didn't have the nuts (anybody can say what they want, but he changed his mind because he didn't have the balls to make the decision that was in front of him).
beyond any doubt that he doesn't have what it takes.I agree with everything else you said 100% but I think it took massive balls to change his call.
He had already made the call, his TMO had reconfirmed and he had video evidence of Owens giving a sworn affidavit that he was offside and knew it. Plus it was against the home crowd.
To go against that takes massive stones.
Now the failure of the IRB, Potite and Garces to come out an explain/apologize/take accountability speaks to their lack of integrity rather than balls.
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Do they record the chat between Ref and the ARs, given the alleged call to change was made in FRench from Garces to Poite, surely that in itself needs dealing with, because it is essentially removing the other AR and the TMO from the process.
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@barbarian Nothing wrong with your analysis honestly, but you have made one massive glaring omission.
Poite blew the whistle stopping play, when the AB's were in a strong attacking position - I'm not convinced like others that ALB was through, as the tackle on him was half hearted, but you cannot deny that we had awesome attacking go-forward ball, against a broken defensive line, with defense back tracking & offence charging forwards.
He blew that whistle, as I'm sure he thought at that point that Black would want the penalty. So he stifled the great attacking chance for the penalty. And then he took that penalty away because he didn't have the nuts (anybody can say what they want, but he changed his mind because he didn't have the balls to make the decision that was in front of him).
It was a shambles, a shafting, and honestly nothing but a complete fuckin debacle. It's a shame, as up until that point, he'd had a great game.
They say the greats come to the fore when it matters, when the pressure is on. Poite proved beyond any doubt that he doesn't have what it takes.
@MajorRage Yeah, I think most of us are angry at the fact that he backtracked on the decision, something that has never ever happened before except for when foul play is involved. So he broke protocol and that should have serious consequences....but knowing how gutless World Rugby is, no punishment will be dished out.
If his original call was for an accidental offside, I don't think too many of us would have had an issue with it.
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We will never know, but I wonder whether he would have made the same call if the situation was in reverse and it was an AB who played at the ball with the Lions on attack? A hell of a lot of power is held by the Lions unions and being human, the possible fallout may have crossed his mind. Fcuk, I'm sounding like a South African!
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We will never know, but I wonder whether he would have made the same call if the situation was in reverse and it was an AB who played at the ball with the Lions on attack? A hell of a lot of power is held by the Lions unions and being human, the possible fallout may have crossed his mind. Fcuk, I'm sounding like a South African!
@Crazy-Horse I expect it was more like he thought, sweet, I can now change my decision that is likely to determine the outcome of this game, AND now it was someone elses decision! Boomfa!
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Do they record the chat between Ref and the ARs, given the alleged call to change was made in FRench from Garces to Poite, surely that in itself needs dealing with, because it is essentially removing the other AR and the TMO from the process.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Do they record the chat between Ref and the ARs, given the alleged call to change was made in FRench from Garces to Poite, surely that in itself needs dealing with, because it is essentially removing the other AR and the TMO from the process.
This x 100. I want to know what Garces said to Poite after he got agreement on knockon, fair contest and penalty kick from TMO. And if nothing else, Poite should play poker more often because his face expression doesn't change in anyway or make any comment as Garces talks to him. And both captains are expecting him to confirm penalty.
I think it was completely ballsy to then announce the exact opposite of what everyone was expecting. The easy option was to say - fair contest, penalty kick. I reckon both captains would have walked away.
I'll guess that Garces said something like:
"Romain, mon petit chou-fleur. Remember ze Aus Scot game and the fuck it up. Listen to me carefully. Ze ball hit ze Red 16 on ze shoulder first. He didn't play it first with ze hand. It was not deliberate. It was ze Offside by ze Accident. So it is just scrum Black.
Don't worry, you won't have to running from the pitch apres, Jaco will look after you, I think he likes you. Keep ze faith, mon ami. Ok have to go now, Reidy and the Sammy baby are looking at you strange - focus, focus. When I click my fingers, you will not remember talking to me but you will not forget Accidental Offside. Adieu." -
Garces and Poite must have turned off their mics because I heard nothing on the Sports Ears after "Oui, Jerome".
I mentioned earlier that they had at least 2 conversations in French during the game, which meant Peyper and Ayoub probably didn't know what was being said.
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Garces and Poite must have turned off their mics because I heard nothing on the Sports Ears after "Oui, Jerome".
I mentioned earlier that they had at least 2 conversations in French during the game, which meant Peyper and Ayoub probably didn't know what was being said.
@Bovidae they were not standing next to one another for that final call, so must be some kind of mic for them to communicate, so surely they should be recorded for training purposes...
Maybe they have an 'open mic' line for the sports ears and a closed one that is only heard by the officials?
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wonder if he is gutted about that decision by Poite
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11889490
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wonder if he is gutted about that decision by Poite
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11889490
@taniwharugby Hmm, I wonder if his name was Garces?
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@taniwharugby Hmm, I wonder if his name was Garces?
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@taniwharugby Hmm, I wonder if his name was Garces?
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