All Black Squad for Rugby Championship
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Don't get me wrong, I still think JK is playing well. I just have a feeling that SL might be able to match it, with another however many years left to get better. When JK came out, he was loose as, but clearly ridiculously talented. I think that in today's market, keeping Luatua (who is also pretty fucking well rounded) in the tent might have been a better bet.
@gt12 Not sure much between us.
Sad to say, JK won't make the RWC, so his replacement is top priority, and Read isn't that far behind him.
Comes down to money. It seems to me that NZRFU needs to allocate sufficient funding to ensure the no. 2's in each position are paid market rate. Not sure how far it could have gone, but Shag's reaction to SL news suggests a substantial pay rise WAS on the cards if he'd re-signed. -
@Bones @Billy-Tell do you remember when kaino was first on the scene? debuted at 21, not a regular starter for another 4 years or so?
luatua was a super-talented and very young (22?)guy, who was a bit loose, but had the ability to do things few others can when first picked. then he got dropped for being unfit or whatever it was, and was never given another proper chance - despite being an absolute standout for the blues, tightening up his game, and being one of their few real leaders. brilliant against the lions. a guy with all the skills to stand out in super rugby, and the size and strength to play with the big boys - a big loss precisely because we haven't got to see him at his best in the AB jersey.@reprobate debuted in baabaas game that was. But it wasn't that surprising that he wasn't back on the AB scene for a few years given the quality in front of him from 05-08.
Luatua debuted in 2013 and played 11 tests that year. Started half of them if I recall correctly. That's a pretty decent opportunity in my eyes. Come 2014 Messam was playing better footy and was the mainstay and rightly so IMO. Luatua's opportunities dried up. 2015 the year to forget for Dolph....
I think it's a loss for NZ rugby because losing a player that is just hitting their straps at only 26 is not good for provincial or super rugby. But for the ABs? I don't think it is.
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People are hoping Luatua coulda been a contender, coulda been somebody...
...instead of heaving overseas, which is what he's done, let's face it. It was you, Charley (Piutau then Faumuina...)
Maybe he would have been great. We'll never know...
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@cgrant the big lions forwards? the pack weight was clearly in favour of the hurricanes. now maybe that's because ardie's a giant, but...
luatua is a really big loss. can't help but think he might have stayed if thrown a bit more of a selection bone.@reprobate
What I mean is that the Lions threw the ball relentlessly to their big men (Van Rooyen, 120 kg, Marx, 117 kg, Ferreira 120 kg and Mostert, 112 kg) to punch holes through the Canes defense, and that Shields managed to stop them dead in their tracks, at least during the first half. These men are not exactly punies, aren't they ? -
When are these opportunities that Luatua should have been given? During the Lions tour when he had already signed to go overseas?*
He had worked his way back into the ABs for the EOYT after a drop in form which saw Messam, Squire and Dixon go ahead of him. He then chose to piss off chasing cash. How is that Hansen's fault?- personally i would have picked him for the Lions instead of the injured Squire but based on form not 'giving him a chance'.
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When are these opportunities that Luatua should have been given? During the Lions tour when he had already signed to go overseas?*
He had worked his way back into the ABs for the EOYT after a drop in form which saw Messam, Squire and Dixon go ahead of him. He then chose to piss off chasing cash. How is that Hansen's fault?- personally i would have picked him for the Lions instead of the injured Squire but based on form not 'giving him a chance'.
I'm not sure who you are replying too, but I think the argument many were making was that on form, he should have been there for the Lions.
While he went on the end of year tour in 2016, he didn't get many opportunities - not chosen to play against Ireland, but played the full 80 against Italy, wasn't chosen against Ireland, and didn't play against France. He was pretty clearly seen as the back up 8, so I wonder if the message he got was that he's got no path until Read retires. In Hansen's defense, I'm not sure how they could have used him differently, because they clearly want Read to play 80.
He announced he was leaving in February, and was clearly one of the best 6 loosies going around, so I think it's a bit sad that he wasn't chosen for the Lions - on form.
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The All Blacks, minus the Crusaders contingent, head into training camp tomorrow and it will be worthwhile keeping an eye on who is invited as previous get-togethers have thrown out big clues about who the selectors are considering for future selection. This year there is particular relevance as with two games and three tests in November, the All Blacks intend to take 37 players with them to Europe and have a proper look at a handful of emerging players. Presumably the coaches will take the opportunity to bring some of those players on the far range of their radar into camp so they can start the process of embedding them into the systems and game plans. Also, given the intense nature of the Rugby Championship, the All Blacks will end up having to call in reinforcements from outside their original squad and it pays to have a wider group having had some kind of exposure rather than be thrown in cold. There's also been a couple of departures - and a few more pending - from the squad that was picked to play the Lions, with Charlie Faumuina and Aaron Cruden already in France and Tawera Kerr-Barlow and Malakai Fekitoa making their way after the Mitre 10 Cup.The rest of the article is the usual speculation about which players could be called up. What's interesting to read is that apparently the squad is going into camp tomorrow without actually having been named (unlike last year).
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11897722
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You would expect there will be an extra layer of fatigue for this group coming on the back of the Lions series plus the Chiefs, Hurricanes and Crusaders All Blacks having all made an extra trip to South Africa. Will be interesting how this plays out over the RC and EOYT.
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I'm not sure who you are replying too, but I think the argument many were making was that on form, he should have been there for the Lions.
While he went on the end of year tour in 2016, he didn't get many opportunities - not chosen to play against Ireland, but played the full 80 against Italy, wasn't chosen against Ireland, and didn't play against France. He was pretty clearly seen as the back up 8, so I wonder if the message he got was that he's got no path until Read retires. In Hansen's defense, I'm not sure how they could have used him differently, because they clearly want Read to play 80.
He announced he was leaving in February, and was clearly one of the best 6 loosies going around, so I think it's a bit sad that he wasn't chosen for the Lions - on form.
@gt12 said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
I'm not sure who you are replying too, but I think the argument many were making was that on form, he should have been there for the Lions.
While he went on the end of year tour in 2016, he didn't get many opportunities - not chosen to play against Ireland, but played the full 80 against Italy, wasn't chosen against Ireland, and didn't play against France. He was pretty clearly seen as the back up 8, so I wonder if the message he got was that he's got no path until Read retires. In Hansen's defense, I'm not sure how they could have used him differently, because they clearly want Read to play 80.
He announced he was leaving in February, and was clearly one of the best 6 loosies going around, so I think it's a bit sad that he wasn't chosen for the Lions - on form.
Wasn't replying to anyone in particular, just the general theme of that article above.
I agree that he should have been picked for the Lions on form but can understand why he wasn't after he had signed overseas. -
I'm not sure who you are replying too, but I think the argument many were making was that on form, he should have been there for the Lions.
While he went on the end of year tour in 2016, he didn't get many opportunities - not chosen to play against Ireland, but played the full 80 against Italy, wasn't chosen against Ireland, and didn't play against France. He was pretty clearly seen as the back up 8, so I wonder if the message he got was that he's got no path until Read retires. In Hansen's defense, I'm not sure how they could have used him differently, because they clearly want Read to play 80.
He announced he was leaving in February, and was clearly one of the best 6 loosies going around, so I think it's a bit sad that he wasn't chosen for the Lions - on form.
@gt12 said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
I'm not sure who you are replying too, but I think the argument many were making was that on form, he should have been there for the Lions.
While he went on the end of year tour in 2016, he didn't get many opportunities - not chosen to play against Ireland, but played the full 80 against Italy, wasn't chosen against Ireland, and didn't play against France. He was pretty clearly seen as the back up 8, so I wonder if the message he got was that he's got no path until Read retires. In Hansen's defense, I'm not sure how they could have used him differently, because they clearly want Read to play 80.
He announced he was leaving in February, and was clearly one of the best 6 loosies going around, so I think it's a bit sad that he wasn't chosen for the Lions -
I think that sums it up pretty well , he was pretty close , but not quite there,
IMO , shame he is going , not sure he will ever be a starting ab , but good depth player nonetheless
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I trust the usual Fern suspects have Chch Airport staked out?
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@KiwiMurph Awesome to see Buckman's name on that list!
@Stargazer said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph Awesome to see Buckman's name on that list!
Totally! Would love to see him get a test, just for being him.
Interesting TKB is in the camp but Cruden is not
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@Stargazer said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph Awesome to see Buckman's name on that list!
Totally! Would love to see him get a test, just for being him.
Interesting TKB is in the camp but Cruden is not
@Hooroo said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph Awesome to see Buckman's name on that list!
Totally! Would love to see him get a test, just for being him.
Interesting TKB is in the camp but Cruden is not
TKB doesn't go to France until after Mitre 10 Cup whereas Cruden is off already.
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@Stargazer said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph Awesome to see Buckman's name on that list!
Totally! Would love to see him get a test, just for being him.
Interesting TKB is in the camp but Cruden is not
@Hooroo said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph Awesome to see Buckman's name on that list!
Totally! Would love to see him get a test, just for being him.
Interesting TKB is in the camp but Cruden is not
Cruden will be off to France soon; TKB will leave after Mitre 10 Cup season.
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@Hooroo said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph Awesome to see Buckman's name on that list!
Totally! Would love to see him get a test, just for being him.
Interesting TKB is in the camp but Cruden is not
TKB doesn't go to France until after Mitre 10 Cup whereas Cruden is off already.
@KiwiMurph said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Hooroo said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph Awesome to see Buckman's name on that list!
Totally! Would love to see him get a test, just for being him.
Interesting TKB is in the camp but Cruden is not
TKB doesn't go to France until after Mitre 10 Cup whereas Cruden is off already.
Cheers! Was unaware of that
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@Stargazer Decent squad. JTA and Fifita are the only two players that I don't think should be there.
