Waikato and the Chiefs
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While I was furious at Joe Tupe missing out on Chiefs selection for 2017...
... it was a drop in the ocean compared to the perceived 'injustices' that used to happen to Bay players under the old model.
Perhaps it opens up opportunities to retain players too. These days we have Culum "100+ games for the Bay" Retallick playing for the Rebels in the off season.
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As I've been away I've just read through this thread. When I started supporting Waikato in the 1980s they were a 2nd Div side so I've been through the many lows and occasional highs.
As the article states there has been some financial challenges in recent years (resulting in a self-imposed salary cap) but that doesn't excuse 6 years of under-performance. "Relegation" is no more than Waikato deserved so hopefully something positive comes out of this review. I think that the current coaches (Botherway, Randle and Hoeft) should go, as they need to be held accountable, but I have no idea of potential replacement coaches. That doesn't exempt the players either but the fact there are so few Super players in the Waikato starting XV is indicative of their performances this season.
Certainly the role of the NPC has changed since the advent of Super rugby, particularly after the changes in the contracting system. In the 1990s I had little interest in the Chiefs as we were lumped with NH and my support was solely with Waikato. Even though I still go to the Waikato home games my expectations have changed, which says as much about me, as a fan, as it does about the performance on the field. I reckon only 2000-3000 turned up for the last home game, which was a must-win. There are a number of season ticket holders in our area that only attend Chiefs games and might turn up for the occasional Waikato game. The WRU better hope they have good sponsors because I doubt they make much from gate sales.
@ARHS It's not just players that Waikato has lost. There are 2 handy coaches at Wellington and North Harbour from the province.
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Can we please stop all pretending Whetu Douglas was a star that the Chiefs missed. No-one else spotted it either and everyone was caught unawares.
Personally, I still don't think he's that good, but just hit form in a form team at a good time. Half a season and he's a star! Or maybe he's as good as his many years at Waikato suggest.
And now the bleating is how they're stupid to leave out Mitch Jacobson. Can't see it myself. I'd pick Karpik over him any day. I don't care how good he was as a kid -- loads of U20 stars turn out petty average.
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I don't rate Karpik that highly myself and I've seen plenty of him up close. Boshier will be the backup to Cane - he's a much better player.
As to Mitch Jacobson, I thought he was the best performed Waikato player in the games I watched. I didn't see the BOP-Waikato game, which I assume he went head-to-head with Karpik. Jacobson was the captain of the Chiefs Dev team so is there or there abouts. He's still young so has time given an opportunity.
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@chester-draws Yes all he did was hold his own, nothing special about him at all and the Chiefs had better players anyway.
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Interesting to raise this thread again now that the super squads have been announced.
The Chiefs have two thirds of their players from within their boundaries (which is about par I imagine)
There are 4 Mitre10 Cup teams to select from and the split is Taranaki 8, Waikato 7, BOP 6 and CM 4.Only HB gets on par with selections from outside, with their 4 equalling CM.
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@crucial said in Waikato and the Chiefs:
Interesting to raise this thread again now that the super squads have been announced.
The Chiefs have two thirds of their players from within their boundaries (which is about par I imagine)
There are 4 Mitre10 Cup teams to select from and the split is Taranaki 8, Waikato 7, BOP 6 and CM 4.Only HB gets on par with selections from outside, with their 4 equalling CM.
And, a few of our worst selections a 'local' players. Fuck that, I want the best team for the Chiefs. I can support both Waikato and the Chiefs as different things.
I'm already pretty non-plussed with Cooper.
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@gt12 said in Waikato and the Chiefs:
@crucial said in Waikato and the Chiefs:
Interesting to raise this thread again now that the super squads have been announced.
The Chiefs have two thirds of their players from within their boundaries (which is about par I imagine)
There are 4 Mitre10 Cup teams to select from and the split is Taranaki 8, Waikato 7, BOP 6 and CM 4.Only HB gets on par with selections from outside, with their 4 equalling CM.
And, a few of our worst selections a 'local' players. Fuck that, I want the best team for the Chiefs. I can support both Waikato and the Chiefs as different things.
I'm already pretty non-plussed with Cooper.
Well the Naki wanted their own franchise and it looks like they may have one.
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/100175971/moohoo-where-are-waikatos-all-blacks
This story from stuff this morning is a good companion piece to this thread. Waikato's recent history makes dismal reading, and seems to have gone hand in hand with the Chiefs' improvement in Super Rugby using central contracting to it's full extreme.
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The issue with the article is that if the players were out there, and Waikato weren't picking them up, then they'd be coming through in other provinces,and if they were good enough for the ABs they'd be making the ABs. The fact they're not tends to point to a dearth of talent at the moment and sometimes schoolboy success doesn't automatically mean those players come through at senior level.
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@nepia said in Waikato and the Chiefs:
The issue with the article is that if the players were out there, and Waikato weren't picking them up, then they'd be coming through in other provinces,and if they were good enough for the ABs they'd be making the ABs. The fact they're not tends to point to a dearth of talent at the moment and sometimes schoolboy success doesn't automatically mean those players come through at senior level.
Yep, totally. I posted this story tongue slightly-in-cheek, as if the Chiefs are sabotaging Waikato, and while there's no doubt the lack of Waikato players in the Chiefs really hurts Waikato, the crux of the issue seems to be the inability of the union to develop players beyond the U20 level.
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shame that article didn't go into deeper detail about player numbers.. a part of Waikatos decline is that i reckon there's fcuk all people playing rugby on a Sat anymore - but would love to see some actual stats compared to history and across regions to see if that's true or not.
. It will be interesting what the make up of the development team will be.
