The Ashes

[antipodean]

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

@antipodean said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.

To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.

He's still the best batsman ever.

"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."

Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.

The rule change is the amount of fielders, not the ability to bowl at the body.

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

@antipodean said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.

To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.

He's still the best batsman ever.

"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."

Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.

Again, pretty irrelevant when Bradmans average is compared to his peers. Not many others of that era averaging 50 or 60 let alone 80 or 90.

Which is why his position as the best ever batsman should be unquestioned.

[MN5]

@antipodean said in The Ashes:

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

@antipodean said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.

To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.

He's still the best batsman ever.

"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."

Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.

The rule change is the amount of fielders, not the ability to bowl at the body.

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

@antipodean said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.

To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.

He's still the best batsman ever.

"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."

Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.

Again, pretty irrelevant when Bradmans average is compared to his peers. Not many others of that era averaging 50 or 60 let alone 80 or 90.

Which is why his position as the best ever batsman should be unquestioned.

I know. Not sure how there are any legitimate challengers according to Indian media. Fat more interest in who is second best....

[Virgil]

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@snowy said in The Ashes:

@virgil said in The Ashes:

You know if you discard Crowe’s first 7 tests and his last 5 his average...

I must have missed this as it has clearly been bought up numerous times before - and is a meaningless stat as he played those 12 tests - but what is the answer?

56 I think. @Virgil ?

How would I know, I thought you were the Hogan fanboy...

Yes it’s something like 56

[KiwiPie]

For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"

Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Anderson

[KiwiPie]

Interestingly 3 English batsmen played 10 or more games in Australia and averaged over 60 - none of them are in that XI. (Barrington, Sutcliffe, Hammond)

For Australia in England, 4 batsmen have achieved the same feat - and 3 of them are the Ashes XI. (Ponsford the other)

English bowlers in Australia - many from the 1800s at the top, SF Barnes just over 22, Geoff MIller the best recent bowler (22.47). Larwood around 27, Botham over 28 and Anderson almost 40 .....

Australian bowlers in England - 5 average below 21, 2 of them in that XI - but the one with the lowest average isn't. (Alderman is the best, Trumble is behind McGrath and Lindwall behind Lillee)

[MN5]

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"

Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Anderson

Some serious legends have missed out on that team.....Hammond, Hayden, Cook, Gooch.....that's just the top three batsmen.

Gotta be question marks on Boycott, Border, S Waugh and Anderson....not denying they're greats but in an absolute ALL TIME 11???

[NTA]

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

S Waugh

"You reckon?"

[Hooroo]

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"

Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Anderson

Some serious legends have missed out on that team.....Hammond, Hayden, Cook, Gooch.....that's just the top three batsmen.

Gotta be question marks on Boycott, Border, S Waugh and Anderson....not denying they're greats but in an absolute ALL TIME 11???

Not only does he start, he also captains the team. He would be my second pick after Bradman

[MN5]

Don't get me wrong fellas, I love S Waugh I just don't know if he's an absolute automatic pick.

[Hooroo]

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Don't get me wrong fellas, I love S Waugh I just don't know if he's an absolute automatic pick.

Sorry mate, but hard to take you seriously when you go weak at the knees for Chris Gayle.......

[MN5]

@hooroo said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Don't get me wrong fellas, I love S Waugh I just don't know if he's an absolute automatic pick.

Sorry mate, but hard to take you seriously when you go weak at the knees for Chris Gayle.......

As an entertainer....

[dK]

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@hooroo said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Don't get me wrong fellas, I love S Waugh I just don't know if he's an absolute automatic pick.

Sorry mate, but hard to take you seriously when you go weak at the knees for Chris Gayle.......

As an entertainer....

Is that an euphemism?

[KiwiPie]

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"

Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Anderson

Some serious legends have missed out on that team.....Hammond, Hayden, Cook, Gooch.....that's just the top three batsmen.

Gotta be question marks on Boycott, Border, S Waugh and Anderson....not denying they're greats but in an absolute ALL TIME 11???

Sorry you can't question Border and Waugh and then bring Cook into the argument - he has a very poor Ashes record barring one series.

[MN5]

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"

Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Anderson

Some serious legends have missed out on that team.....Hammond, Hayden, Cook, Gooch.....that's just the top three batsmen.

Gotta be question marks on Boycott, Border, S Waugh and Anderson....not denying they're greats but in an absolute ALL TIME 11???

Sorry you can't question Border and Waugh and then bring Cook into the argument - he has a very poor Ashes record barring one series.

That one series he was exceptional. I probably worded that poorly. He's worth a fleeting mention.

[KiwiPie]

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

@kiwipie said in The Ashes:

For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"

Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Anderson

Some serious legends have missed out on that team.....Hammond, Hayden, Cook, Gooch.....that's just the top three batsmen.

Gotta be question marks on Boycott, Border, S Waugh and Anderson....not denying they're greats but in an absolute ALL TIME 11???

Sorry you can't question Border and Waugh and then bring Cook into the argument - he has a very poor Ashes record barring one series.

That one series he was exceptional. I probably worded that poorly. He's worth a fleeting mention.

Many to mention ahead of him based on him not averaging above 40 in any Ashes series except that one. Just for English openers - Sutcliffe, Gooch, Edrich, Hutton ....

[barbarian]

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Don't get me wrong fellas, I love S Waugh I just don't know if he's an absolute automatic pick.

His Ashes record is bloody good though. Averages over 60 from memory.

[KiwiPie]

@barbarian said in The Ashes:

@mn5 said in The Ashes:

Don't get me wrong fellas, I love S Waugh I just don't know if he's an absolute automatic pick.

His Ashes record is bloody good though. Averages over 60 from memory.

He does indeed. Over 70 in England ....

Remember many times Australia made over 600 and he was around 170 not out at the end

[barbarian]

@kiwipie I do. Holy God I do.

Thanks for that KP. It's been a long day.

[nzzp]

Steve Waugh.

Fark me, I'd pick him too, second or third name down. Put him in charge of a team like that and watch it go

Also, I'm a SWaugh fanboy. I mis-typed 'lick' instead of 'pick' and considered leaving it alone. FML.

[MN5]

Can some cricket nerd get Walter Hammonds average in ashes cricket? I can't fathom him not being in there somewhere.