6N 2018
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Time to reflect on the game and it needed a further watch really. This was down to the level of anxiety and of course the constant, irritating and quite frankly wrong, commentary courtesy of Mrs Cato. It's no wonder I prefer to go to the pub to watch tests these days.
Anyway. First off, poor conditions and I don't see either side as having the skills under pressure to play anything like an expansive game under the circs. England played the conditions much better than Wales early on with an intelligent kicking game backed up by good chasing and support. Result was try no1. England also played the pick and go very well, certainly in the first half, punching holes to create space. Result try no2. In the end that was (just) enough.
So why was it such a tight game? Primarily I feel because Wales refused to buckle and kept their discipline very well under pressure. Secondary was England's failure to keep the scoreboard pressure up; with Wales not coughing up penalty chances and a slippery ball compounding small errors, there is nothing wrong with the odd droppie or two to add pressure. Probably a bit naive in this sense.
Wales slow start really cost them. That and their lack of precision in attack where I felt that many of the old guard reverted to Warrenball at times. The new boys in general held up well and you have to ask the question why hasn't Shingler got more caps? He's got some serious wheels for a big guy and a good engine too. Alright he tried that daft grubber, but bloody hell he carved us up a couple of times. England's first up defence caused a lot of problems but I also felt we scrambled well when we had to. Take a bow Owen Farrell and Sam Underhill.
Finally, try or no try? Whilst I can see why the TMO said no try I was surprised he did as usually the decision seems to go to the attacking side. 70/30 try to me. However Wales were lucky to be in that position, it was a pretty poor kick from Patchell (I think) that bobbled off Evans' knee. A Hail Mary kick knowing the penalty was coming that was very close to being a knock on. Nothing wrong with taking the chance but neither was it constructive attacking play. Still unlucky though.
Good luck in Dublin to our friends from across the Taff. If you would please do us a favour and knock over Ireland I'd be grateful.
I just saw it (away for the weekend) and on first watch I thought it was a try all day long. But on replay, I thought he knocked it on. It certainly wasn't as clear as obvious as Gatland made it sound in the presser (which I had seen earlier). Hard to argue with it, anyway, pretty much a line call (I'd have been OK with it going the other way but I thought he knocked it on).
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WR have come out and said the TMO got it wrong.
(Still waiting on their comment regarding what happened at the end of the Lions series....)
Not sure how anyone can doubt the validity of the try tbh.
In this frame you can see Anscombe reaching the ball first. Hand, ball and grass all connected.
If you are doubting whether he had pressure on the ball then look at this next frame where the ball has considerably been pushed into the turf as Anscombes hand slides to the side. At this point no other player has touched the ball.
The relevant Law:
The ball can be grounded in in-goal:
By holding it and touching the ground with it; or
By pressing down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player’s body from waist to neck.
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I just saw it (away for the weekend) and on first watch I thought it was a try all day long. But on replay, I thought he knocked it on. It certainly wasn't as clear as obvious as Gatland made it sound in the presser (which I had seen earlier). Hard to argue with it, anyway, pretty much a line call (I'd have been OK with it going the other way but I thought he knocked it on).
I just saw it (away for the weekend) and on first watch I thought it was a try all day long. But on replay, I thought he knocked it on. It certainly wasn't as clear as obvious as Gatland made it sound in the presser (which I had seen earlier). Hard to argue with it, anyway, pretty much a line call (I'd have been OK with it going the other way but I thought he knocked it on).
Pretty much my assessment, although I didn't see the knock on at the time. S'funny, there's been a bit of press over here emanating from the Wales management team about the non-try. The headline reads "Wales should have been awarded a try" says World Rugby. The meat of the story though is Howley saying Alain Rolland "of World Rugby" has confirmed in a phone call that the TMO made a mistake. Additionally World Rugby told BBC Sport Wales it "has clarified to the Wales team management... that the TMO made an error in the application of law during the England versus Wales match".
The governing body added: "In accordance with law 21.1 b, Wales should have been awarded a try as the Wales player grounded the ball." Note no mention of the knock on or not.
But of course no official statement from World Rugby. The bit that makes me laugh a bit though is this from Howley "I haven't spoken to any of the match officials. It's happened, it's disappointing that happens in professional sport. But we focus on the next two weeks and getting ready for Ireland."
If so, why keep banging on about it?
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@Catogrande probably ensuring it is on the record to pull out again at performance review time. Got to protect those bonus payments.
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I just saw it (away for the weekend) and on first watch I thought it was a try all day long. But on replay, I thought he knocked it on. It certainly wasn't as clear as obvious as Gatland made it sound in the presser (which I had seen earlier). Hard to argue with it, anyway, pretty much a line call (I'd have been OK with it going the other way but I thought he knocked it on).
Pretty much my assessment, although I didn't see the knock on at the time. S'funny, there's been a bit of press over here emanating from the Wales management team about the non-try. The headline reads "Wales should have been awarded a try" says World Rugby. The meat of the story though is Howley saying Alain Rolland "of World Rugby" has confirmed in a phone call that the TMO made a mistake. Additionally World Rugby told BBC Sport Wales it "has clarified to the Wales team management... that the TMO made an error in the application of law during the England versus Wales match".
The governing body added: "In accordance with law 21.1 b, Wales should have been awarded a try as the Wales player grounded the ball." Note no mention of the knock on or not.
But of course no official statement from World Rugby. The bit that makes me laugh a bit though is this from Howley "I haven't spoken to any of the match officials. It's happened, it's disappointing that happens in professional sport. But we focus on the next two weeks and getting ready for Ireland."
If so, why keep banging on about it?
I reckon he bounced it, but then watching again, I thought he scored it.
I've seen it 50 times now I reckon.
He certainly grounded it first, so it has to be a knock on or a score. On that basis, I chose knock on, but now looking at it again, maybe it is a score as perhaps it is always in contact with his hand until it touches the ground. But, it still looks like he bounced it to me when I watch the replay.
And I was watching expecting it to be a score - I support Wales all day over the Poms.
But, even with my red glasses on, I thought it wasn't totally legit.
But, then I can't exactly see the point where it isn't, so it actually must be a try.
Anyway, if world rugby has said it is a try, then that's fine with me.
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I reckon he bounced it, but then watching again, I thought he scored it.
I've seen it 50 times now I reckon.
He certainly grounded it first, so it has to be a knock on or a score. On that basis, I chose knock on, but now looking at it again, maybe it is a score as perhaps it is always in contact with his hand until it touches the ground. But, it still looks like he bounced it to me when I watch the replay.
And I was watching expecting it to be a score - I support Wales all day over the Poms.
But, even with my red glasses on, I thought it wasn't totally legit.
But, then I can't exactly see the point where it isn't, so it actually must be a try.
Anyway, if world rugby has said it is a try, then that's fine with me.
I reckon he bounced it, but then watching again, I thought he scored it.
I've seen it 50 times now I reckon.
He certainly grounded it first, so it has to be a knock on or a score. On that basis, I chose knock on, but now looking at it again, maybe it is a score as perhaps it is always in contact with his hand until it touches the ground. But, it still looks like he bounced it to me when I watch the replay.
And I was watching expecting it to be a score - I support Wales all day over the Poms.
But, even with my red glasses on, I thought it wasn't totally legit.
But, then I can't exactly see the point where it isn't, so it actually must be a try.
Anyway, if world rugby has said it is a try, then that's fine with me.
The knock on (or not) came from Steff Evans before Anscombe grounded (or didn't) the ball.
At the time I thought it was likely a try and wouldn't have had too much to grumble about if it had been given, but it's all moot isn't it. The try was not given, Wales went back for the penalty and the game then evolved accordingly. Who knows what would have occurred thereafter if the try had been given.
The game is over. England won. End of story.
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@gt12 by 'bounced it' and/or 'knocked on' do you mean you think he touched it then lost contact then touched it again?
Those shots I posted are about 2/10ths of a second apart. The first is at his first contact.I think the WR comment that the law was incorrectly applied is the key. 'Presses' is the key word. Forget the commentary rubbish about 'forcing' the ball. If his hand is in contact and applying ANY downward pressure then it is a try under the law. Recently though, we have seen Super Rugby TMOs only award tries when the hand remains on top of the ball and doesn't slide off. I guess that was an effort to remove contentious calls when players clip the side of the ball only or slide down the side before the ball touches the ground.
Could well be that Newman was ruling the way his SANZAAR bosses told him to and finding it at odds to WR. -
@gt12 by 'bounced it' and/or 'knocked on' do you mean you think he touched it then lost contact then touched it again?
Those shots I posted are about 2/10ths of a second apart. The first is at his first contact.I think the WR comment that the law was incorrectly applied is the key. 'Presses' is the key word. Forget the commentary rubbish about 'forcing' the ball. If his hand is in contact and applying ANY downward pressure then it is a try under the law. Recently though, we have seen Super Rugby TMOs only award tries when the hand remains on top of the ball and doesn't slide off. I guess that was an effort to remove contentious calls when players clip the side of the ball only or slide down the side before the ball touches the ground.
Could well be that Newman was ruling the way his SANZAAR bosses told him to and finding it at odds to WR.Yep, I thought he actually bounced it between the shots (actually, maybe even before the first one). But, when I really slow it down, I can't see it.
BTW, I haven't heard any commentary @Crucial , or seen any other stuff @Catogrande so no idea what you are talking about with the other knock on. I'm only talking about the 1/2 second around this ball being forced or not.
Anyway, after all that, I'm happy with it being ruled a try.
I still think he bounced it though.
@gt12 by 'bounced it' and/or 'knocked on' do you mean you think he touched it then lost contact then touched it again?
Those shots I posted are about 2/10ths of a second apart. The first is at his first contact.I think the WR comment that the law was incorrectly applied is the key. 'Presses' is the key word. Forget the commentary rubbish about 'forcing' the ball. If his hand is in contact and applying ANY downward pressure then it is a try under the law. Recently though, we have seen Super Rugby TMOs only award tries when the hand remains on top of the ball and doesn't slide off. I guess that was an effort to remove contentious calls when players clip the side of the ball only or slide down the side before the ball touches the ground.
Could well be that Newman was ruling the way his SANZAAR bosses told him to and finding it at odds to WR. -
Jerry Guscott's view was that the grounding was fine and the TMO made a mistake but it should not have been a try due to a previous knock on. Opinion piece and video here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43026443
His point in question arises about 20 seconds into the vid. To my mind it would have been very easy to miss. At the time I thought there was no knock on. Now...?
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Jerry Guscott's view was that the grounding was fine and the TMO made a mistake but it should not have been a try due to a previous knock on. Opinion piece and video here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43026443
His point in question arises about 20 seconds into the vid. To my mind it would have been very easy to miss. At the time I thought there was no knock on. Now...?
@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
Jerry Guscott's view was that the grounding was fine and the TMO made a mistake but it should not have been a try due to a previous knock on. Opinion piece and video here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43026443
His point in question arises about 20 seconds into the vid. To my mind it would have been very easy to miss. At the time I thought there was no knock on. Now...?
I certainly can't see a knock on in those angles. Guscott talks about some other view on twitter which I can't find.
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@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
Jerry Guscott's view was that the grounding was fine and the TMO made a mistake but it should not have been a try due to a previous knock on. Opinion piece and video here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43026443
His point in question arises about 20 seconds into the vid. To my mind it would have been very easy to miss. At the time I thought there was no knock on. Now...?
I certainly can't see a knock on in those angles. Guscott talks about some other view on twitter which I can't find.
@crucial Certainly not absolutely conclusive. Separately, Guscott makes the point that the footage available to the TMO is not fit for purpose, that he does not have frame by frame view available to him. If true this is just a bit shit really.
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Best. Interview. Ever.
Great quote from a Father about his son. "He's got a bit of fluffybunny in him"
Gold.
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Best. Interview. Ever.
Great quote from a Father about his son. "He's got a bit of fluffybunny in him"
Gold.
@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
Best. Interview. Ever.
Great quote from a Father about his son. "He's got a bit of fluffybunny in him"
Gold.
Trust a Scotsman to tell it like it is. Pretty certain Graham senior basically got eaten alive by Os Du Randt when he played though....
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@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
Best. Interview. Ever.
Great quote from a Father about his son. "He's got a bit of fluffybunny in him"
Gold.
Trust a Scotsman to tell it like it is. Pretty certain Graham senior basically got eaten alive by Os Du Randt when he played though....
@catogrande said in 6N 2018:
Best. Interview. Ever.
Great quote from a Father about his son. "He's got a bit of fluffybunny in him"
Gold.
Trust a Scotsman to tell it like it is. Pretty certain Graham senior basically got eaten alive by Os Du Randt when he played though....
Wouldn't have been the first. Not exactly something to be ashamed of. Os was no mug ...
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Ireland team to play Wales from the Twitter machine
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Ireland beat Wales 5 tries to 3. 37-27
Scotland currently leading England 22-6 at halftime in Murrayfield.
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Fantastic game so far Scotland on fire, Hue Jones sensational.
Finn Russell has thrown the best pass I've seen since Brooke to Cullen 20 odd years ago.
Long way to go, and England will come back, great game.
Earlier game an absolute hammering by Ireland, abeilt not on the score card. Sexton had an abortion from the tee and Hometown Jackson lived up to his name, but this was as dominant as you'll see. Fair play to Wales to keep coming back, but surely surely Gats has run his course.
