All Blacks v France Test #2
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@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Serious question: Are the judiciary controlled by World Rugby or are they just a bunch of lawyers doing their best to come up with complicated rulings and obscure defences? WR should be annoyed by this because it undoes all the work they have put into this area in the last few years. I guarantee they won't say anything publically about it though. If it was an AB getting off on the other hand.....
You mean like how Tu'ungafasi got off?
Th whole reason they rubbed out the red is because Tu'ungafasi wasn't even carded. I suppose it's all down to perspective. Had it been Cane in hospital with a fractured skull, I wonder if you would have anything to say about the offending player unintentionally injuring Cane.
I'll make it simple:
Cane & Tu'ungafasi unintentionally injure Grosso = No card/citing
Fall unintentionally injures Barrett = Off for 70 odd min with a red cardIt looks so bent that WR had to do something - And it does little to console the French imo.
I was at the game, and literally everyone was talking about how they didnt pay to watch 15-14. That call killed the game. Red cards need a 10min binning followed by an enforced subbing of the offending player.
Anyways, the game may have been forgettable, but the atmosphere generated by the sellout crowd redeemed the night. Will be back for the AB vs Bok game. Probably be a bittersweet moment.
@pn said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Serious question: Are the judiciary controlled by World Rugby or are they just a bunch of lawyers doing their best to come up with complicated rulings and obscure defences? WR should be annoyed by this because it undoes all the work they have put into this area in the last few years. I guarantee they won't say anything publically about it though. If it was an AB getting off on the other hand.....
You mean like how Tu'ungafasi got off?
Th whole reason they rubbed out the red is because Tu'ungafasi wasn't even carded. I suppose it's all down to perspective. Had it been Cane in hospital with a fractured skull, I wonder if you would have anything to say about the offending player unintentionally injuring Cane.
I'll make it simple:
Cane & Tu'ungafasi unintentionally injure Grosso = No card/citing
Fall unintentionally injures Barrett = Off for 70 odd min with a red cardIt looks so bent that WR had to do something - And it does little to console the French imo.
I was at the game, and literally everyone was talking about how they didnt pay to watch 15-14. That call killed the game. Red cards need a 10min binning followed by an enforced subbing of the offending player.
Anyways, the game may have been forgettable, but the atmosphere generated by the sellout crowd redeemed the night. Will be back for the AB vs Bok game. Probably be a bittersweet moment.
How can you compare the Tu'ungafasi incident with this?
And yes it's a shame that the game was ruined as a spectacle but dangerous play is dangerous play and until now WR have been very clear about the sanctions for these types of incidents. Obviously that's all gone to holy hell now so good luck refs.
But seriously after the Lions series how could anyone in their right mind think that officials pander to the ABs? People either have very short memories or are completely fucking stupid.
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What utter bullshit. If I was anyone of the other players who had gotten a red card for such an incident in the past I would be seething. I am thinking of the Payne incident off the top of my head. But I am sure there are others. The Ref was right under current rules straight red.
On another note, I see all the talking heads are saying red cards ruin games and we need to solve this problem for accidental contacts. One week after they were baying for a red card for Ofa. Pack of fucking hypocrites. Where was the call for this orange card when Sonny bill didn't get low enough in the lions test? That ruined the test, that was a dynamic impact affected by a 3rd party!
The biggest joke of all is that during the SA Eng Match one of the English wingers copped a shoulder to the head as he was going down in a tackle. But as there was no injury, thats fine! Never mentioned again. I hate to sound like an old man but this shit is ruining rugby.
Intentional dirty play should get a red.
Reckless a yellow.If you miss it the citing official should pick it up. We don't need 35 different coloured cards to officiate rugby we need common sense.
My personal take on the incident is that I hate that it's a red card offense to try and compete for the ball. But that is the precedent and that was red all day long under the current interpretations.
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@pn said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Serious question: Are the judiciary controlled by World Rugby or are they just a bunch of lawyers doing their best to come up with complicated rulings and obscure defences? WR should be annoyed by this because it undoes all the work they have put into this area in the last few years. I guarantee they won't say anything publically about it though. If it was an AB getting off on the other hand.....
You mean like how Tu'ungafasi got off?
Th whole reason they rubbed out the red is because Tu'ungafasi wasn't even carded. I suppose it's all down to perspective. Had it been Cane in hospital with a fractured skull, I wonder if you would have anything to say about the offending player unintentionally injuring Cane.
I'll make it simple:
Cane & Tu'ungafasi unintentionally injure Grosso = No card/citing
Fall unintentionally injures Barrett = Off for 70 odd min with a red cardIt looks so bent that WR had to do something - And it does little to console the French imo.
I was at the game, and literally everyone was talking about how they didnt pay to watch 15-14. That call killed the game. Red cards need a 10min binning followed by an enforced subbing of the offending player.
Anyways, the game may have been forgettable, but the atmosphere generated by the sellout crowd redeemed the night. Will be back for the AB vs Bok game. Probably be a bittersweet moment.
How can you compare the Tu'ungafasi incident with this?
And yes it's a shame that the game was ruined as a spectacle but dangerous play is dangerous play and until now WR have been very clear about the sanctions for these types of incidents. Obviously that's all gone to holy hell now so good luck refs.
But seriously after the Lions series how could anyone in their right mind think that officials pander to the ABs? People either have very short memories or are completely fucking stupid.
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
But seriously after the Lions series how could anyone in their right mind think that officials pander to the ABs? People either have very short memories or are completely fucking stupid.
It's the third option. The self fulfilling prophecy. The conclusion is already decided and all evidence which enforces it is acknowledged, those that doesn't, is ignored.
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What utter bullshit. If I was anyone of the other players who had gotten a red card for such an incident in the past I would be seething. I am thinking of the Payne incident off the top of my head. But I am sure there are others. The Ref was right under current rules straight red.
On another note, I see all the talking heads are saying red cards ruin games and we need to solve this problem for accidental contacts. One week after they were baying for a red card for Ofa. Pack of fucking hypocrites. Where was the call for this orange card when Sonny bill didn't get low enough in the lions test? That ruined the test, that was a dynamic impact affected by a 3rd party!
The biggest joke of all is that during the SA Eng Match one of the English wingers copped a shoulder to the head as he was going down in a tackle. But as there was no injury, thats fine! Never mentioned again. I hate to sound like an old man but this shit is ruining rugby.
Intentional dirty play should get a red.
Reckless a yellow.If you miss it the citing official should pick it up. We don't need 35 different coloured cards to officiate rugby we need common sense.
My personal take on the incident is that I hate that it's a red card offense to try and compete for the ball. But that is the precedent and that was red all day long under the current interpretations.
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
My personal take on the incident is that I hate that it's a red card offense to try and compete for the ball.
It's fucken not! This is the bullshit that people are buying into that is "ruining the game" for them. It's (usually) a red card offence to be an idiot and pretend you can't see anything else but the ball - which would then put you in trouble for not taking any care at all to check your surroundings. Well shit I was out duck shooting and this duck dropped down into a crowd of people, so I tried to shoot it, I couldn't see the people. Who knew that was a bad thing?
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WR prove yet again how defensive and reactionary they are. Dare to criticise the way we instruct the refs and we'll say the refs got it wrong.
Show them how their attempts to stop head injuries aren't stopping them but instead are creating controversy headlines for the game and they will double down with another stupid and inconsistent application.
I give the refs a bit of stick sometimes but in this instance I feel sorry for Angus G. He did exactly what he was told to do only to be made look incompetent.
It wasn't that long ago that WR completely supported the ludicrous RC decision on Finn Russell where he was standing still to catch a ball, and a running in and leaping player launched toward him at speed creating the clear danger of a knee to the head.Ignoring comparisons though, it is clear that the laws do not stop accidents and that treating accidents the same as intentional foul play only makes the game look stupid and are very unfair on the accountable party. There can be very easy ways around this but they fail to entertain addressing this and instead wriggle around being inconsistent at hearings.
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@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
My personal take on the incident is that I hate that it's a red card offense to try and compete for the ball.
It's fucken not! This is the bullshit that people are buying into that is "ruining the game" for them. It's (usually) a red card offence to be an idiot and pretend you can't see anything else but the ball - which would then put you in trouble for not taking any care at all to check your surroundings. Well shit I was out duck shooting and this duck dropped down into a crowd of people, so I tried to shoot it, I couldn't see the people. Who knew that was a bad thing?
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
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@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
Well I must watch too much rugby. I've seen a heck of a lot more contests where there was little to no jump than ones where there is a big leap.
I don't think anyone (even WR) disagrees with your second para.
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@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
And you think that happened in this case?
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@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
And you think that happened in this case?
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
And you think that happened in this case?
Nope which is why it should have stayed a red.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
And you think that happened in this case?
Nope which is why it should have stayed a red.
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
And you think that happened in this case?
Nope which is why it should have stayed a red.
Fair enough
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@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
And you think that happened in this case?
Nope which is why it should have stayed a red.
Fair enough
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@mooshld said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@bones I don't see it the same to be honest. I guess I was trying to say that there is now only one way to compete for the ball, jump. No jump well you didn't compete.
I agree people charging in with no regard for others around should be penalised. But I also think that in all fairness if you launch yourself at a stationary player from 3 meters away and get flipped as a consequence that is tough shit.
And you think that happened in this case?
Nope which is why it should have stayed a red.
Fair enough
What just happened there???
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@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Serious question: Are the judiciary controlled by World Rugby or are they just a bunch of lawyers doing their best to come up with complicated rulings and obscure defences? WR should be annoyed by this because it undoes all the work they have put into this area in the last few years. I guarantee they won't say anything publically about it though. If it was an AB getting off on the other hand.....
You mean like how Tu'ungafasi got off?
Th whole reason they rubbed out the red is because Tu'ungafasi wasn't even carded. I suppose it's all down to perspective. Had it been Cane in hospital with a fractured skull, I wonder if you would have anything to say about the offending player unintentionally injuring Cane.
I'll make it simple:
Cane & Tu'ungafasi unintentionally injure Grosso = No card/citing
Fall unintentionally injures Barrett = Off for 70 odd min with a red cardIt looks so bent that WR had to do something - And it does little to console the French imo.
I was at the game, and literally everyone was talking about how they didnt pay to watch 15-14. That call killed the game. Red cards need a 10min binning followed by an enforced subbing of the offending player.
Anyways, the game may have been forgettable, but the atmosphere generated by the sellout crowd redeemed the night. Will be back for the AB vs Bok game. Probably be a bittersweet moment.
@pn said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Serious question: Are the judiciary controlled by World Rugby or are they just a bunch of lawyers doing their best to come up with complicated rulings and obscure defences? WR should be annoyed by this because it undoes all the work they have put into this area in the last few years. I guarantee they won't say anything publically about it though. If it was an AB getting off on the other hand.....
You mean like how Tu'ungafasi got off?
Isn't that exactly his point? The chairman of world rugby publicly tweeted his personal undermining of his ref, TMO and Judiciary last week after being badgered by 'neutral' media on his twitter account.
What will he do this week? Nothing, because Reuben at stuff.co.nz social media desk has no followers ....
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
Forgive me for intimating we might take a leaf out of AFL books, but surely those crazies have a rule to reduce the carnage which might otherwise result from their marking antics?
Big difference between the two is that they more often have a pack of guys all moving in the same direction. The collisions therefore have less force and, more often, guys land safely. With rugby, guys contesting are almost always moving in opposite directions, which increases the impact of the collisions and, in turn, creates more risk.
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test #2
Forgive me for intimating we might take a leaf out of AFL books, but surely those crazies have a rule to reduce the carnage which might otherwise result from their marking antics?
I think in AFL and Basketball this would be an ejection. I believe their rules mean if you take out a jumpers legs from under them then it wasn't a realistic jump.
I'm no expert though.
I also believe- If they went shoulder to shoulder and someone fell on their head, by some fluke, then unlike rugby (until the judiciary just turned everything upside down ....) they don't rule on outcome from a fair jump?
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@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test #2
Forgive me for intimating we might take a leaf out of AFL books, but surely those crazies have a rule to reduce the carnage which might otherwise result from their marking antics?
I think in AFL and Basketball this would be an ejection. I believe their rules mean if you take out a jumpers legs from under them then it wasn't a realistic jump.
I'm no expert though.
I also believe- If they went shoulder to shoulder and someone fell on their head, by some fluke, then unlike rugby (until the judiciary just turned everything upside down ....) they don't rule on outcome from a fair jump?
@rapido said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test #2
Forgive me for intimating we might take a leaf out of AFL books, but surely those crazies have a rule to reduce the carnage which might otherwise result from their marking antics?
I think in AFL and Basketball this would be an ejection. I believe their rules mean if you take out a jumpers legs from under them then it wasn't a realistic jump.
I'm no expert though.
I also believe- If they went shoulder to shoulder and someone fell on their head, by some fluke, then unlike rugby (until the judiciary just turned everything upside down ....) they don't rule on outcome from a fair jump?
I had a quick look at the AFL rulebook and this may be the clause in which it is covered.
A Player makes Prohibited Contact with an opposition Player if the Player: (a) makes contact or attempts to make contact with any part of their body with an opposition Player in a manner likely to cause injury; (i) above the shoulders (including the top of the shoulders); or (ii) below the knees.
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@rapido said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test #2
Forgive me for intimating we might take a leaf out of AFL books, but surely those crazies have a rule to reduce the carnage which might otherwise result from their marking antics?
I think in AFL and Basketball this would be an ejection. I believe their rules mean if you take out a jumpers legs from under them then it wasn't a realistic jump.
I'm no expert though.
I also believe- If they went shoulder to shoulder and someone fell on their head, by some fluke, then unlike rugby (until the judiciary just turned everything upside down ....) they don't rule on outcome from a fair jump?
I had a quick look at the AFL rulebook and this may be the clause in which it is covered.
A Player makes Prohibited Contact with an opposition Player if the Player: (a) makes contact or attempts to make contact with any part of their body with an opposition Player in a manner likely to cause injury; (i) above the shoulders (including the top of the shoulders); or (ii) below the knees.
@crucial said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rapido said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@pakman said in All Blacks v France Test #2
Forgive me for intimating we might take a leaf out of AFL books, but surely those crazies have a rule to reduce the carnage which might otherwise result from their marking antics?
I think in AFL and Basketball this would be an ejection. I believe their rules mean if you take out a jumpers legs from under them then it wasn't a realistic jump.
I'm no expert though.
I also believe- If they went shoulder to shoulder and someone fell on their head, by some fluke, then unlike rugby (until the judiciary just turned everything upside down ....) they don't rule on outcome from a fair jump?
I had a quick look at the AFL rulebook and this may be the clause in which it is covered.
A Player makes Prohibited Contact with an opposition Player if the Player: (a) makes contact or attempts to make contact with any part of their body with an opposition Player in a manner likely to cause injury; (i) above the shoulders (including the top of the shoulders); or (ii) below the knees.
That's a nicely worded rule
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@voltron said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rocky-rockbottom
That’s a truly shit analysis.
What about McKenzie showing that he is a world class 10?
Won’t he long before he overtakes BarrettYou are taking the piss right? Thought McKenzie well and truly showed that hes not a first fives asshole.
@jk said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@voltron said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rocky-rockbottom
That’s a truly shit analysis.
What about McKenzie showing that he is a world class 10?
Won’t he long before he overtakes BarrettYou are taking the piss right? Thought McKenzie well and truly showed that hes not a first fives asshole.
Well I don’t really watch rugby but I know talent when I see it. Dmac will start at the World Cup
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@jk said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@voltron said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rocky-rockbottom
That’s a truly shit analysis.
What about McKenzie showing that he is a world class 10?
Won’t he long before he overtakes BarrettYou are taking the piss right? Thought McKenzie well and truly showed that hes not a first fives asshole.
Well I don’t really watch rugby but I know talent when I see it. Dmac will start at the World Cup
@voltron said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@jk said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@voltron said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rocky-rockbottom
That’s a truly shit analysis.
What about McKenzie showing that he is a world class 10?
Won’t he long before he overtakes BarrettYou are taking the piss right? Thought McKenzie well and truly showed that hes not a first fives asshole.
Well I don’t really watch rugby but I know talent when I see it. Dmac will start at the World Cup
That, is brilliant. You should really take up sports betting with an astute mind like that.
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@voltron said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@jk said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@voltron said in All Blacks v France Test #2:
@rocky-rockbottom
That’s a truly shit analysis.
What about McKenzie showing that he is a world class 10?
Won’t he long before he overtakes BarrettYou are taking the piss right? Thought McKenzie well and truly showed that hes not a first fives asshole.
Well I don’t really watch rugby but I know talent when I see it. Dmac will start at the World Cup
That, is brilliant. You should really take up sports betting with an astute mind like that.
