All Blacks v Springboks
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@chester-draws As I mentioned in another thread, blanket stats we get from media are almost all pointless. Kick percentage doesn't take into account kick difficulty, missed tackles are expected with rushing/swarming defensive systems, turnovers doesn't take into account the way the ABs are passing so close to contact, fast and in hard areas... I'm not saying that it's not better to have them on the normal 'good' side (no missed tackles, no missed shots, no dropped ball) but as raw numbers they are not great at judging what the team is trying to achieve. Metres run is another one, if the opposition kicks long a lot, you'll get heaps of metres - so what? Some are still useful as pure numbers (scrums, lineouts) but really there is not enough detail to use them to judge a team or a game.
@machpants said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@chester-draws As I mentioned in another thread, blanket stats we get from media are almost all pointless.
I agree completely. Wayne Smith used to basically ignore them, was only interested in dominant tackles. The stats are misleading, and I'd be very surprised if the coaches relied heavily on them other than as a informative background
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All stats around possession and territory need to be put into context. For example, time in the opposition's 22 only tells you where you are on the field, not what you are doing with the ball. A clinical attacking team might spend little time in the 22 because they take most of their scoring opportunities, whereas a team devoid of ideas might be camped in the opposition's 22 but never look like scoring a try.
There are plenty of variations of this quote:
Statistics are like mini-skirts .. they give you good ideas but they don't reveal everything.
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Hemopo doesn't have any problems in SR so I don't think his lack of height would be an issue as the reserve lock. I remember seeing Savea winning a throw at the front on Sat (height jokes aside). Read is one of the main lineout targets and is similar to Hemopo. I'd be more worried about Harris finding his target.
As a comparison, while Etzebeth and Synman are giants, Mostert isn't that tall by Bok standards (1.98 m).
@bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Hemopo doesn't have any problems in SR so I don't think his lack of height would be an issue as the reserve lock. I remember seeing Savea winning a throw at the front on Sat (height jokes aside). Read is one of the main lineout targets and is similar to Hemopo. I'd be more worried about Harris finding his target.
As a comparison, while Etzebeth and Synman are giants, Mostert isn't that tall by Bok standards (1.98 m).
We'd find out if Sam Whitelock went down in the first five minutes and we ended up with Barrett and Hemepo as our locks.
I don't think it's coincidental that our lineout is pretty great with Retallick and Whitelock as our locks and both well past 2 metres.
Read is a fantastic technician though. Probably the best third jumper in the world - a bit of a loose forward version of Matfield.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Hemopo doesn't have any problems in SR so I don't think his lack of height would be an issue as the reserve lock. I remember seeing Savea winning a throw at the front on Sat (height jokes aside). Read is one of the main lineout targets and is similar to Hemopo. I'd be more worried about Harris finding his target.
As a comparison, while Etzebeth and Synman are giants, Mostert isn't that tall by Bok standards (1.98 m).
We'd find out if Sam Whitelock went down in the first five minutes and we ended up with Barrett and Hemepo as our locks.
I don't think it's coincidental that our lineout is pretty great with Retallick and Whitelock as our locks and both well past 2 metres.
Read is a fantastic technician though. Probably the best third jumper in the world - a bit of a loose forward version of Matfield.
@chris-b Chicago vs Ireland showed we do need specialist locks but BBBR won't be there so they'll start with Whitelock and Barrett. The debate is over the reserve lock.
I'll put it another way, who is better as a lineout jumper - Hemopo or Tuipulotu? I'd say Hemopo despite being the shorter of the two. I would have selected Franklin in the original squad myself. Problem solved.
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@chris-b Chicago vs Ireland showed we do need specialist locks but BBBR won't be there so they'll start with Whitelock and Barrett. The debate is over the reserve lock.
I'll put it another way, who is better as a lineout jumper - Hemopo or Tuipulotu? I'd say Hemopo despite being the shorter of the two. I would have selected Franklin in the original squad myself. Problem solved.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks:
That's pretty much impossible unless you're standing still
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I don't like BBBR not being there, makes me feel uneasy
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Assistant coach Ian Foster confirmed today multiple players who were overlooked last week are back in contention. "Sonny [Bill Williams] had his scan yesterday and he's all clear, ready to go, but he was sick this morning so he didn't train but the good news is his scan's all clear. "He's in contention to play, it's just some bug or something." Foster said there were other key figures also in contention to play after getting a week off in Nelson. "Sam Cane is in the mix, Ryan Crotty is the same." There was also positive signs coming from hooker Dane Coles, who hasn't played rugby since a season-ending knee injury on last year's end-of-year tour. "Every week he's getting closer and closer so it's exciting and he's starting to believe that now too. "He's got that glint in his eye and he's asking questions and looking for stuff - it's nice to see." However, there's still concern around Brodie Retallick, who is likely to miss up to six weeks of rugby due to a shoulder injury. "Brodie hasn't had his scan yet so I don't know." Ngani Laumape was another casualty of the 46-24 win, suffering a grade one knee ligament injury and is expected to be out for two to three weeks. -
I don't like BBBR not being there, makes me feel uneasy
@shadowtrooper said in All Blacks v Springboks:
I don't like BBBR not being there, makes me feel uneasy
Not so concerned about this game but I hope he will be back for the return match in South Africa.
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Seems odd it is 2 full work days and he has not had a scan yet...can't get an appointment or waiting for the ACC number...
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The steady decline of Springboks rugby in recent years. We often talk about the cyclical nature of sport - well, they have been trending one way.
South Africa vs everyone since 2013
New Zealand: played eight, lost seven, won one
Australia: played eight, lost four, won two
Argentina: played 11, lost three, won eight (prior to 2014 SA lost to Argentina only once)
Wales: played seven, lost four, won three (prior to 2014 SA lost to Wales only once)
Ireland: played five, lost three, won two
England: played five, lost two, won three
Scotland: played two, won two
Italy: lost one, won two
France played four, won four
Japan played one, lost one – SA had never lost to Japan before -
Seems odd it is 2 full work days and he has not had a scan yet...can't get an appointment or waiting for the ACC number...
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Seems odd it is 2 full work days and he has not had a scan yet...can't get an appointment or waiting for the ACC number...
More likely it's sore and/or swollen enough that they can't do a proper scan yet. Sometimes you have to wait for things to settle before a scan.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Seems odd it is 2 full work days and he has not had a scan yet...can't get an appointment or waiting for the ACC number...
More likely it's sore and/or swollen enough that they can't do a proper scan yet. Sometimes you have to wait for things to settle before a scan.
@machpants that unfortunately likely points to it being a bit more serious?
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@machpants that unfortunately likely points to it being a bit more serious?
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The steady decline of Springboks rugby in recent years. We often talk about the cyclical nature of sport - well, they have been trending one way.
South Africa vs everyone since 2013
New Zealand: played eight, lost seven, won one
Australia: played eight, lost four, won two
Argentina: played 11, lost three, won eight (prior to 2014 SA lost to Argentina only once)
Wales: played seven, lost four, won three (prior to 2014 SA lost to Wales only once)
Ireland: played five, lost three, won two
England: played five, lost two, won three
Scotland: played two, won two
Italy: lost one, won two
France played four, won four
Japan played one, lost one – SA had never lost to Japan before@taniwharugby Those are some seriously sobering stats for Bok fans! I knew it was bad, but I'd not seen it laid out that clearly.
It would be worse, but the French have been poor for a few years, giving them at least one country they can beat reliably.
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@taniwharugby I don't think so, a joint can easily get swollen enough without major damage. Think of an ankle sprain, it might look very bad the next morning and then be fine a week later.
@sapetyvi hopefully the case, add in that he tried to play on gives hope...just such a shame that a player in some form fast becoming a great has been injured half the year and could be out for a time again.
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Seems odd it is 2 full work days and he has not had a scan yet...can't get an appointment or waiting for the ACC number...
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Springboks:
Seems odd it is 2 full work days and he has not had a scan yet...can't get an appointment or waiting for the ACC number...
I though the same bloody thing!
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I don't know TBH, I just know that scans sometimes have to be left until the effected area has settled, whether that means BBBR has a major, no idea.
@machpants said in All Blacks v Springboks:
I don't know TBH, I just know that scans sometimes have to be left until the effected area has settled, whether that means BBBR has a major, no idea.
Rotator cuff injuries are tricky. Last year Rieko thought he had one, but amazingly recovered. Everyone's RC gets a bit shagged over time (by 60) if they live an active life, but it doesn't need to be 100% to play high level sport. Pat Rafter went years with a dodgy RC, electing to do daily rubber band exercises rather than get it repaired surgically (six months out).
Main thing with BBBR is that it is correctly assessed. If out till EOYT, fine so long as then 90%. Or surgery now, to be back for Super Rugby. But most definitely not rushed back quickly/too soon and reinjured requiring surgery which could have been avoided.
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@machpants said in All Blacks v Springboks:
I don't know TBH, I just know that scans sometimes have to be left until the effected area has settled, whether that means BBBR has a major, no idea.
Rotator cuff injuries are tricky. Last year Rieko thought he had one, but amazingly recovered. Everyone's RC gets a bit shagged over time (by 60) if they live an active life, but it doesn't need to be 100% to play high level sport. Pat Rafter went years with a dodgy RC, electing to do daily rubber band exercises rather than get it repaired surgically (six months out).
Main thing with BBBR is that it is correctly assessed. If out till EOYT, fine so long as then 90%. Or surgery now, to be back for Super Rugby. But most definitely not rushed back quickly/too soon and reinjured requiring surgery which could have been avoided.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Springboks:
@machpants said in All Blacks v Springboks:
I don't know TBH, I just know that scans sometimes have to be left until the effected area has settled, whether that means BBBR has a major, no idea.
Rotator cuff injuries are tricky. Last year Rieko thought he had one, but amazingly recovered. Everyone's RC gets a bit shagged over time (by 60) if they live an active life, but it doesn't need to be 100% to play high level sport. Pat Rafter went years with a dodgy RC, electing to do daily rubber band exercises rather than get it repaired surgically (six months out).
Main thing with BBBR is that it is correctly assessed. If out till EOYT, fine so long as then 90%. Or surgery now, to be back for Super Rugby. But most definitely not rushed back quickly/too soon and reinjured requiring surgery which could have been avoided.
I went to a lunch a few years ago and Rafter was there. He said the amount of shoulder massaging he got each day to help him manage his RC/shoulder issues was ridiculous
I think with Squire, Read, Whitelock and S. Barrett our lineout options are fine. Even if we lost Whitelock early and brought in either Paddy or Hemp, I think our lineout will function okay.
The Irish game showed that Retallick (and Whitelock) are the key cogs to our work in the tight. Good time for others to step it up which I think they will.
