Japan vs All Blacks
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@canes4life said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I still believe Barrett could have played a few more years at NPC /Super level before taking that step up to International. I've got no doubts he is going to be a long term All Black, but right now I think he should be back home cooling his heels for the summer.
Good point. I'm all for blooding the young kids and getting a look at them in black, but looking at 21 and under players blooded this century blindly persevering with players who don't make every post a winner after their debut has not been a great strategy.
The northern apprenticeship in hindsight boxed them into a corner to pick him the following year
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@act-crusader my point is it used to be ok for wingers to be try scoring machines and nothing else. Look at the greatest, Lomu. Nowadays it's not enough, same as tight five forward are expected to be able to catch and pass, wingers are expected to be able to tackle. Saying it's ok for a winger of today to be a poor tackler in the ABs because those of the past weren't good on defence is nonsense. I was disagreeing with that premise
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@rotated I don't really see Jordie being that future fullback anyway with the second coming of Christian Cullen, aka Will Jordan probably staking claim to that jersey down the track.
A Jordie Barrett-Jack Goodhue midfield combo would do nicely for me.
Possible backline post World Cup: 9. Perenara 10. Mo'unga 11. Ioane 12. J Barrett 13. Goodhue 14. Bridge 15. Jordan
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I must be missing somethign, there is nothing about JB's game that makes me think he should be playing elsewhere, let alone 12.
12/13 are farking tough posiitions to play, both offensively and defensively, no way would I want JB there.
What chance does he have of getting time at 12 in the Hurricanes with Laumape there?
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@taniwharugby said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I must be missing somethign, there is nothing about JB's game that makes me think he should be playing elsewhere, let alone 12.
12/13 are farking tough posiitions to play, both offensively and defensively, no way would I want JB there.
What chance does he have of getting time at 12 in the Hurricanes with Laumape there?
You're missing the fact that he played his age grade rugby at 12, and then his debut (breakout) season at 12 for Canterbury where he was one of their best players. That's where the "Jordie to 12" comes from - he's had great success there at a high level but has never been given the chance to develop at the top level.
Agree with Laumape his time may be limited. In hindsight he was probably better to play for the Crusaders and form a partnership with Goodhue while Crotty spends 90% of the season injured.
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@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
You're missing the fact that he played his age grade rugby at 12, and then his debut (breakout) season at 12 for Canterbury where he was one of their best players.
Agree he looked good at 12 for Canterbury that year. He did move around a lot though - 12, 13 & 15. Probably the same amount of time in each position?
They rotated Rob Thompson, Goodhue and Barrett in the midfield
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@no-quarter I reckon they would have played him at fullback instead of Havili.
I'm in the other camp. I reckon his future is at fullback. He's still just 21.
Ben Smith didn't become a regular All Black until he was 26 and the regular AB fullback until he was about 28.
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@chris-b said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter I reckon they would have played him at fullback instead of Havili.
I'm in the other camp. I reckon his future is at fullback. He's still just 21.
Ben Smith didn't become a regular All Black until he was 26 and the regular AB fullback until he was about 28.
Yeah, we've discussed this in the past. I think he could make a good go of 12 or 15, I'd personally like to see 12 as he has a lot of good attributes that suit the position. There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
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It really depends on the tactical trends, and at the moment we seem to be just heading into a '2 playmakers' phase with the fullback coming into first receiver on the opposite side of the scrum/ruck/maul the the 10.
This trend absolutely suits the immediate future prosects of DMac and Jordie and moves away from B Smith (Who is good a second receiver playmaker) and away from Will Jordan.
On the flip side we are seeing less of second playmakers like Mauger/McAllister (or cough Orbyn Leger) etc at 12.
Jordie is only 21, he will probably see these tactical trends change another 2 times in his career.
From an NZ POV and a Jordie POV - There's no point asking Jordie to play 12 for the Canes etc if that is not the way the AB tactical plans are going.
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@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
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@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
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@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
I'm not suggesting it's a competition, but I don't think Jordie is being singled out anymore than other players not in great form.
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@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
I'm not suggesting it's a competition, but I don't think Jordie is being singled out anymore than other players not in great form.
Young player tailing off after a long season? Am I recalling correctly that he was in pretty stellar form for much of Super rugby - there were expectations that he was going to compel BFA to the wing.
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@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@nepia said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@no-quarter said in Japan vs All Blacks:
There's an awful lot of hate on this board for such a young and obviously talented prospect.
I don't think that is true in the slightest - he's just not in great form and getting called on it. The 'hate' directed at him has been no worse than that directed at DMac at various times.
The hate directed at both players has been pretty irrational at times, it's not a competition. Certain posters do seem to take some pleasure in seeing Jordie struggle, with some in this thread even calling for an end to his AB career.
ooh ooh that's me!!
Call it a direct response the ridiculous hype he got early where he wasn't that great, but was made out to be the great white hope.
And i did say "in the short term". Right now he doesn't deserve a test spot, based on his whole body of 2018 work at both levels. I don't think it's an outlandish thing to say. He only plays one position, and at the moment he looks 3rd in line for that spot.
But, as has been repeatedly said on this thread, he's just a baby, and has all the time in the world. He has pretty good instincts, but his skills and decision making need some polish. Plenty of time to work on that, providing he sticks around.
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@chris-b I think there’s something in that. He had an excellent super season. He combined very well with his brother in attack and really improved his defence.
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@act-crusader One big takeaway from that test - seeing George Bridge come on and do what he did...
....how big of a loss was Johnny McNicholl?
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@chris-b said in Japan vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader One big takeaway from that test - seeing George Bridge come on and do what he did...
....how big of a loss was Johnny McNicholl?
Not big, because Bridge is a lot better than McNicholl ever was ....
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@kiwiinmelb said in Japan vs All Blacks:
I think one of the biggest concerns for Jordie ,
Right now , he is a fullback only ,
And for a player down the pecking order as he is atm , not in the top 23 , maybe that spot is better going to a utility
Yep. Totally agree. He clearly isn't a 13 and for whatever farking reason he's not been played in the position that won him Mitre10 Cup player of the year as a 19 year old.
I think his skills in the air make him a better test 15 than DMac, but DMac would have to be the better bench option.
Will be interesting to see how he's used next year. While I'm happy to have him at the Canes I think career wise he should have gone to the Saders. With Crotty broken every second game he'd have had a thousand chances at 12.
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