England vs All Blacks
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@gt12 so when England take all their backs bar one to the left are you saying that our backs shouldn't go there? Everything was well covered on England's right except for the space in the tramlines, which had been covered by DMac until a moment before the pass when he was dragged over for a moment by Daly.
I just don't get why you are trying to pin blame on SBW when, if he was still there, it would only be to push Reiko wider yet Reiko didn't need to be wider even though the defence was already set as per the pattern.
I give credit to England for manipulating us rather than looking to single out and blame one AB player.
If you watch what is being done by England it is a very planned and organised movement no doubt practised on the training ground. They all knew what they were doing and how we were likely to react. The pass to the outside came as no surprise to Ashton, he was hanging back waiting for it.Same as their second try where (watch the feet) the whole maul unit shuffled sideways, presumably on a call. They didn't drive at an angle infield, they actually moved sideways with intent. Again, well planned and executed.
I hate giving the poms and Eddie credit but find I have to in fairness rather than look to blame individual ABs. -
@stargazer said in England vs All Blacks:
Todd on for Savea.
Guy next to me said, 'Cue the perennial Kiwi battler'. great line!
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I dislike Itoje as a player! I reckon he is let away with so much at the breakdown, always putting hands in the ruck to slow it down, but I guess good on him, he gets away with it.
One of these ones where you could say ABs played shit and where luck but actually in reflection did pretty good. Hard place to win, pooring rain and down 15 after 20min Eng played as well as they could, but still stayed calm and tightened the screws. One thing you can guarantee this week and next is how hard teams will come out but absolutely shocking start from us.
England for me this was your chance and you blew it, too predictable and ABs adjusted and they didnt.@98blueandgold said in England vs All Blacks:
I dislike Itoje as a player! I reckon he is let away with so much at the breakdown, always putting hands in the ruck to slow it down, but I guess good on him, he gets away with it.
One could say that the oppo disliking a player is a compliment.
Remember how much it riled the Brits that Richie had a cloak of invisibility?
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@jc said in England vs All Blacks:
And Matt Todd retains his perfect record, never lost in black
If he keeps that up a cert for RWC final bench?!
@pakman said in England vs All Blacks:
@jc said in England vs All Blacks:
And Matt Todd retains his perfect record, never lost in black
If he keeps that up a cert for RWC final bench?!
Human victory cigar? (I know he's a little better than that)
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Dreadful defending by SBW in the run up to the Ashton try. Look 00:27 on the video below. He jogs over to the wrong side for no obvious reason, leaving Reiko Ioane to mark two guys.
@sparky said in England vs All Blacks:
Dreadful defending by SBW in the run up to the Ashton try. Look 00:27 on the video below. He jogs over to the wrong side for no obvious reason, leaving Reiko Ioane to mark two guys.
Did you read the posts about this before posting?
No obvious reason? Apart from the England backline all running to the other side?
We were manipulated. It wasn't one player making a poor decision.
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@sparky said in England vs All Blacks:
Dreadful defending by SBW in the run up to the Ashton try. Look 00:27 on the video below. He jogs over to the wrong side for no obvious reason, leaving Reiko Ioane to mark two guys.
Did you read the posts about this before posting?
No obvious reason? Apart from the England backline all running to the other side?
We were manipulated. It wasn't one player making a poor decision.
@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in England vs All Blacks:
Dreadful defending by SBW in the run up to the Ashton try. Look 00:27 on the video below. He jogs over to the wrong side for no obvious reason, leaving Reiko Ioane to mark two guys.
Did you read the posts about this before posting?
No obvious reason? Apart from the England backline all running to the other side?
We were manipulated. It wasn't one player making a poor decision.
Yup. Let's not behave like England and Eddy Jones are total mugs. He has an earned reputation as a deep thinker and may have done us a favour identifying some weaknesses
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@sparky said in England vs All Blacks:
Dreadful defending by SBW in the run up to the Ashton try. Look 00:27 on the video below. He jogs over to the wrong side for no obvious reason, leaving Reiko Ioane to mark two guys.
Did you read the posts about this before posting?
No obvious reason? Apart from the England backline all running to the other side?
We were manipulated. It wasn't one player making a poor decision.
South Africa tried a similiar trick in Cape Town last year (from 2:02). But Sopoaga didn't fall for it. The ball ended up in Reiko's hands and he ran the length of the pitch for the try.
SBW left Reiko marking at least two guys on Saturday. He fell into Eddie Jones' trap.
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South Africa tried a similiar trick in Cape Town last year (from 2:02). But Sopoaga didn't fall for it. The ball ended up in Reiko's hands and he ran the length of the pitch for the try.
SBW left Reiko marking at least two guys on Saturday. He fell into Eddie Jones' trap.
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@sparky That's not the same.
@antipodean Similar not the same.
South Africa were operating in broken play after a number of phases. England's was of course a much slicker, pre-prepared team move in the first two minutes of the game. It was still poor defending by SBW to leave Reiko Ioane with a double-marking assignment.
But I guess the SBW fanboys won't see it that way. :winking_face:
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Nothing to do with fanboys. Just think posters are pulling you up on your point that’s all.
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@antipodean Similar not the same.
South Africa were operating in broken play after a number of phases. England's was of course a much slicker, pre-prepared team move in the first two minutes of the game. It was still poor defending by SBW to leave Reiko Ioane with a double-marking assignment.
But I guess the SBW fanboys won't see it that way. :winking_face:
@sparky said in England vs All Blacks:
@antipodean Similar not the same.
South Africa were operating in broken play after a number of phases. England's was of course a much slicker, pre-prepared team move in the first two minutes of the game. It was still poor defending by SBW to leave Reiko Ioane with a double-marking assignment.
But I guess the SBW fanboys won't see it that way. :winking_face:
South Africa were merely going around the corner. England manipulated the defence to make it look like they were going back openside - that's why two All Blacks hared over as part of their defensive pattern.
But I guess the SBW haters won't see it that way.
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@stargazer said in England vs All Blacks:
Amazing that there was a big article in today's Times (London) that offside adjudged when half touches ball. It stated that at that point Lawes was onside. Then Ofa steps forward (but articles says too late to matter). The above implies that so long as Ofa's foot outstretched before TJP picked up the ball Lawes was obliged to back-peddle, which he did not. In other words Ofa's step was decisive?
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RE: SBW
He seems to have lost any spark he had. In the past you could forgive the brain-fart tackles , the Hail-Mary passes or knocking the ball forward in-goal, as long as he was a threat in midfield, or if he had matured into a solid but savvy midfielder, like Crotty or Conrad. Sadly he's neither.
You get the sense Hansen is picking him in the hope he'll come right. There's actually a heck of a lot of depth at 12/13 - Crotty, ALB, Laumape, Goodhue - but there certainly ain't a settled combination which is worrying. Methinks Shag has to make his mind up soon.
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RE: SBW
He seems to have lost any spark he had. In the past you could forgive the brain-fart tackles , the Hail-Mary passes or knocking the ball forward in-goal, as long as he was a threat in midfield, or if he had matured into a solid but savvy midfielder, like Crotty or Conrad. Sadly he's neither.
You get the sense Hansen is picking him in the hope he'll come right. There's actually a heck of a lot of depth at 12/13 - Crotty, ALB, Laumape, Goodhue - but there certainly ain't a settled combination which is worrying. Methinks Shag has to make his mind up soon.
@victor-meldrew He's not been able to string any games together this year due to injury. That could easily be a large part of the problem
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@stargazer said in England vs All Blacks:
Amazing that there was a big article in today's Times (London) that offside adjudged when half touches ball. It stated that at that point Lawes was onside. Then Ofa steps forward (but articles says too late to matter). The above implies that so long as Ofa's foot outstretched before TJP picked up the ball Lawes was obliged to back-peddle, which he did not. In other words Ofa's step was decisive?
@pakman said in England vs All Blacks:
@stargazer said in England vs All Blacks:
Amazing that there was a big article in today's Times (London) that offside adjudged when half touches ball. It stated that at that point Lawes was onside. Then Ofa steps forward (but articles says too late to matter). The above implies that so long as Ofa's foot outstretched before TJP picked up the ball Lawes was obliged to back-peddle, which he did not. In other words Ofa's step was decisive?
Immediately wrong. When the halfback lifts the ball.
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@pakman said in England vs All Blacks:
@stargazer said in England vs All Blacks:
Amazing that there was a big article in today's Times (London) that offside adjudged when half touches ball. It stated that at that point Lawes was onside. Then Ofa steps forward (but articles says too late to matter). The above implies that so long as Ofa's foot outstretched before TJP picked up the ball Lawes was obliged to back-peddle, which he did not. In other words Ofa's step was decisive?
Immediately wrong. When the halfback lifts the ball.
@booboo said in England vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England vs All Blacks:
@stargazer said in England vs All Blacks:
Amazing that there was a big article in today's Times (London) that offside adjudged when half touches ball. It stated that at that point Lawes was onside. Then Ofa steps forward (but articles says too late to matter). The above implies that so long as Ofa's foot outstretched before TJP picked up the ball Lawes was obliged to back-peddle, which he did not. In other words Ofa's step was decisive?
Immediately wrong. When the halfback lifts the ball.
Yes, I assume it was this article re-reported on Stuff. I stopped reading when i got to "when half touches ball" which is only 3 paragraphs in.
It has actually been quite interesting reading the laws clarification the last few days on tackle rule v ruck rule differences. I have actually learnt something as I didn't really need to take notice of the Italy v England outcomes.
But 4 days later, for a printed article from an ex-professional ref to have such a glaring mistake which makes the next 1000 odd words written pointless ... is just amazing. The mistake above is unrelated to those changes.
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@booboo said in England vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England vs All Blacks:
@stargazer said in England vs All Blacks:
Amazing that there was a big article in today's Times (London) that offside adjudged when half touches ball. It stated that at that point Lawes was onside. Then Ofa steps forward (but articles says too late to matter). The above implies that so long as Ofa's foot outstretched before TJP picked up the ball Lawes was obliged to back-peddle, which he did not. In other words Ofa's step was decisive?
Immediately wrong. When the halfback lifts the ball.
Yes, I assume it was this article re-reported on Stuff. I stopped reading when i got to "when half touches ball" which is only 3 paragraphs in.
It has actually been quite interesting reading the laws clarification the last few days on tackle rule v ruck rule differences. I have actually learnt something as I didn't really need to take notice of the Italy v England outcomes.
But 4 days later, for a printed article from an ex-professional ref to have such a glaring mistake which makes the next 1000 odd words written pointless ... is just amazing. The mistake above is unrelated to those changes.
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Great game to watch, all in all if you take out the poor start it was a great 16 consecutive points from ABs in those conditions. I hate for anyone to get injured but I was so relieved to see Crotty come on. Thought mostly good performances especially in the pack. Mackenzie a bit of a mixed bag but I feel they have to stick with him as this is the best back 3 we have. I think Ofa has improved massively but can you really have him on the field in the last 10? He is a better starter than finisher but at the end of a game too much of a liability. Worried about A Smith, clearing was pretty good but kicking was dreadful. Can think of 4 or 5 test half backs who kick better than him. Also his butchering of a chance for Saves was awful, seems to make a lot of bad decisions in those types of situations. Even TJs slow motion box kick was a shocker though Lawes was clearly offside.
@dmx said in England vs All Blacks:
Great game to watch, all in all if you take out the poor start it was a great 16 consecutive points from ABs in those conditions. I hate for anyone to get injured but I was so relieved to see Crotty come on. Thought mostly good performances especially in the pack. Mackenzie a bit of a mixed bag but I feel they have to stick with him as this is the best back 3 we have. I think Ofa has improved massively but can you really have him on the field in the last 10? He is a better starter than finisher but at the end of a game too much of a liability. Worried about A Smith, clearing was pretty good but kicking was dreadful. Can think of 4 or 5 test half backs who kick better than him. Also his butchering of a chance for Saves was awful, seems to make a lot of bad decisions in those types of situations. Even TJs slow motion box kick was a shocker though Lawes was clearly offside.
Main thing I've taken away from the game is that our competitive advantage over everyone is with ball in hand. If we get drawn into kickfests - especially in shit conditions - then there are other teams that are simply better at it than us.
I suspect a big advantage that Crotty has over most of our other options at second five is in terms of experience, nous and authority. If Ben Smith is stuck on the right wing, then maybe we need that extra guidance at second-five? The Cooper Cronk factor!
I'm not convinced DMac is the right option as the starting fullback. He's unpredictable, but almost as much for his teammates as for the opposition. If you're playing him, then in part you're building a big part of your game plan around that unpredictability. And those turnovers that come with the risk/reward/(punishment!) approach could be a killer. I'd prefer to see him coming off the bench with 20 minutes to go and providing some spark if we're a score behind. However, if he's doing that then Mo'unga isn't in the 23 - and it also begs the question of who starts on the right wing. Anyone seen Israel Dagg playing in Japan? Any chance that he's going to come back fit and with some firepower? What I really wish is that they had George Bridge in Europe - but, perhaps he will pull a NMS v.2015 next year. And of course, the default alternative is Naholo - who also doesn't inspire 100% confidence.
Saturday is really the last chance to switch horses at 10 and start Mo'unga and push Beaudy to fullback - I really can't see them doing that now, though if the RWC was a year further away I reckon it could have happened. Richie is looking very assured when he comes onto the field.
On SBW, his injury might be a blessing in disguise for everyone. He can go back to Super rugby and prove there that he's still got some firepower.
