England vs All Blacks
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@booboo said in England vs All Blacks:
@pakman said in England vs All Blacks:
@stargazer said in England vs All Blacks:
Amazing that there was a big article in today's Times (London) that offside adjudged when half touches ball. It stated that at that point Lawes was onside. Then Ofa steps forward (but articles says too late to matter). The above implies that so long as Ofa's foot outstretched before TJP picked up the ball Lawes was obliged to back-peddle, which he did not. In other words Ofa's step was decisive?
Immediately wrong. When the halfback lifts the ball.
Yes, I was amazed a chunky article in the 'quality' press would be constructed around an incorrect understanding of the laws.
The other point is that if Ofa hadn't stepped forward Lawes would have been onside when TJP picked up the ball. Small margins.
And appalling ball protection by ABs.
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@pakman I think there was an English player that was part of the tackle too, which meant he needed to be behind him, not Ofa.
@taniwharugby said in England vs All Blacks:
@pakman I think there was an English player that was part of the tackle too, which meant he needed to be behind him, not Ofa.
Are you talking about the guy in front of Ofa that he makes contact with? Thats after the step that @pakman is talking about
Ignore the gridlines in this video, they are silly (like the lines on some static images earlier in this thread). However you can see the sequence clearly from this angle. Lawes is onside initially, Ofa's step moves the offside line and he's offside a couple of frames before TJ has the ball.
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@taniwharugby said in England vs All Blacks:
@pakman I think there was an English player that was part of the tackle too, which meant he needed to be behind him, not Ofa.
Are you talking about the guy in front of Ofa that he makes contact with? Thats after the step that @pakman is talking about
Ignore the gridlines in this video, they are silly (like the lines on some static images earlier in this thread). However you can see the sequence clearly from this angle. Lawes is onside initially, Ofa's step moves the offside line and he's offside a couple of frames before TJ has the ball.
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With Lawes' right foot being off the ground he is simply pushing the boundary by timing a step. He took a risk that his teammates weren't going to take (note how they are deliberately keep back from the moving tackle area).
He got caught out by Ofa's foot.As has been pointed out by others on the day, there was another offside player as well, but he wasn't material to the play afterward (I think).
It was a desperate calculated act that he nearly pulled off. Given that you actually have to freeze frame to find the moment when the offside line changes before the ball is off the ground it looks to be a much closer thing than I had thought.
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With Lawes' right foot being off the ground he is simply pushing the boundary by timing a step. He took a risk that his teammates weren't going to take (note how they are deliberately keep back from the moving tackle area).
He got caught out by Ofa's foot.As has been pointed out by others on the day, there was another offside player as well, but he wasn't material to the play afterward (I think).
It was a desperate calculated act that he nearly pulled off. Given that you actually have to freeze frame to find the moment when the offside line changes before the ball is off the ground it looks to be a much closer thing than I had thought.
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@pakman said in England vs All Blacks:
@crucial Still six of the best from Shag for blockers, if you can call them that.
Yeah, there are two ways by which you can give your HB room. One is with outriggers to make the path around long. The other is by making the tackle area long enough. They went for the latter and only just achieved it. I have to admit that, although it is consistent with rucks and scrums, Todd's 'bind' is tenuous.
The other question is 'why the fuck is TJ box kicking anyway'. Everyone knows he has no right boot so will be facing the danger side for a chargedown (probably a pre game observation by Eddie to his forwards). Also, box kick is only going to handing England the ball for another crack. Surely holding possession until a gap appears for a deep kick is a better option?
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@rocky-rockbottom said in England vs All Blacks:
Look. That cheating guy in the black jersey is offside!
@crucial said in England vs All Blacks:
@rocky-rockbottom said in England vs All Blacks:
Look. That cheating guy in the black jersey is offside!
You're getting confused, it's his aura that's over the line
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So I went back and had a look at why we want to dump SBW from the greatest height possible, and I'm still struggling to work out exactly what he did wrong.
Apparently you're a either a fluffer or a hater, you can't apparently be a neutral observer of Dubs. I don't count myself as a SBW fluffer but will no doubt be accused of being one because I'm essentially defending him after reviewing the actual evidence.
Anyway my observations are as follows:
- 01:50 Defensive switch as discussed ad nauseum above. Does look to be within the team pattern, as a number of players switch at once. Further Ioane looked to have been sucked too far off his wing (appears Nigel Yalden agrees with me from what I heard yesterday)
- 05:43 Joins two man tackle on Te'o (BB goes low, SBW high). Tackle ends up dominant.
- 10:52 Hit up after getting flat foot ball following confusion as to who was receiving. Ball slow and loopy over Franks's head. Zero metres but presents well and possession retained
- 11:14 Punches half gap through double tackle and left handed offload to Ioane to make break
- 13:40 Chases BB kick. Scares Farrell into falling over
(who passes as he does so) - 14:45 Drops pass from BB (backwards) under advantage. (Ref eventually goes back to scrum.)
- 17:15 Joins clean out at ruck (doesn't clear anyone but ball won)
- 17:42 Straightens backline move which was crabbing sideways (BB). Frees arms for offload: noone to pass to. Makes ground, reaching advantage line. Presents ball ruck won
- 20:45 Grubber for Ioane. Seemed to be part of plan. Took ball to line to commit defenders but angle not wide enough and covered by England
- 21:20 Chases grubber by AS. Pulls out of contest to allow Ioane to contest (who also does well to stay on feet and not concede penalty
- 25:42 Has minor effect moving up midfield to cut off potential counter attack following BB's missed penalty for touch
- 26:57 Aerial contest from 22m drop-out. Knock-on as barged in air before ball arrives. (Ball may even have been propelled backwards)
- 30:00 Leaves field
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So that is essentially two errors (dropped pass, slightly poorly executed grubber).
And otherwise doing what you expect him to do.
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@booboo he should set up a try with a spectacular off load with every touch, while carrying the English forwards on his back.
@taniwharugby said in England vs All Blacks:
@booboo he should set up a try with a spectacular off load with every touch, while carrying the English forwards on his back.
Or just do something? Get involved?
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@taniwharugby said in England vs All Blacks:
@booboo he should set up a try with a spectacular off load with every touch, while carrying the English forwards on his back.
Or just do something? Get involved?
@snowy said in England vs All Blacks:
@taniwharugby said in England vs All Blacks:
@booboo he should set up a try with a spectacular off load with every touch, while carrying the English forwards on his back.
Or just do something? Get involved?
So given the choice of chase the ball and be a glory hog to satisfy some internet warrior's expectation of your superhuman abilities, or stay in the pattern the coaches have instructed you to ...
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@snowy said in England vs All Blacks:
@taniwharugby said in England vs All Blacks:
@booboo he should set up a try with a spectacular off load with every touch, while carrying the English forwards on his back.
Or just do something? Get involved?
So given the choice of chase the ball and be a glory hog to satisfy some internet warrior's expectation of your superhuman abilities, or stay in the pattern the coaches have instructed you to ...
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Criticism of SBW is not just based on that performance. Given what he is (was?) capable of and what he's producing on the pitch he is well below his best. His lack of pace can be fairly easily exploited on defense as well.
He's not a disaster, but I think he's lucky to be starting. Right now I'd prefer either ALB-Goodhue or Crotty-Goodhue.
SBW should not be a lock for RWC19. Am hoping he has an injury free Super season to show he still has what it takes.
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@snowy said in England vs All Blacks:
@booboo You think that not getting involved is a coaches instruction?
I'm sure staying in the pattern and doing your job is, along with instructions to not do random shit.
In that 30 minute period England had the vast majority of ball and were generally running at areas SBW wasn't. So for him to go to those areas to "get involved" would take him out of the defensive pattern. Not a good outcome.
When the All Blacks had the ball SBW got it in hand 4 times ( should have been 5 but he dropped one...
)- once he was SBW and offloaded to Ioane
- once he rescued a crabbing backline
- once he rescued flatfooted ball
- once he angled a grubber slightly wrong (btw if messing up a grubber was the measuring stick for selection we'd be calling up backup from NZ after that Twickers game)
Not sure how or where he would be expected to "get involved" where that meant disrupting team systems. Does he push one of the forward runners out if the way?
Honestly, he was not "bad" or deserving of never playing again, as has been suggested on this thread, on the basis of that performance.
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Criticism of SBW is not just based on that performance. Given what he is (was?) capable of and what he's producing on the pitch he is well below his best. His lack of pace can be fairly easily exploited on defense as well.
He's not a disaster, but I think he's lucky to be starting. Right now I'd prefer either ALB-Goodhue or Crotty-Goodhue.
SBW should not be a lock for RWC19. Am hoping he has an injury free Super season to show he still has what it takes.
@no-quarter said in England vs All Blacks:
Criticism of SBW is not just based on that performance. Given what he is (was?) capable of and what he's producing on the pitch he is well below his best. His lack of pace can be fairly easily exploited on defense as well.
He's not a disaster, but I think he's lucky to be starting. Right now I'd prefer either ALB-Goodhue or Crotty-Goodhue.
SBW should not be a lock for RWC19. Am hoping he has an injury free Super season to show he still has what it takes.
Totally agree with the second half of your post. The problem is that plenty HAVE been using this game as definitive proof he is past it and should be dumped completely.
The only thing this game reinforces is that he injury prone which is by far his biggest issue.
He is injured so often it is impossible to string enough consecutive minutes together to even assess his form. -
@snowy said in England vs All Blacks:
@booboo You think that not getting involved is a coaches instruction?
I'm sure staying in the pattern and doing your job is, along with instructions to not do random shit.
In that 30 minute period England had the vast majority of ball and were generally running at areas SBW wasn't. So for him to go to those areas to "get involved" would take him out of the defensive pattern. Not a good outcome.
When the All Blacks had the ball SBW got it in hand 4 times ( should have been 5 but he dropped one...
)- once he was SBW and offloaded to Ioane
- once he rescued a crabbing backline
- once he rescued flatfooted ball
- once he angled a grubber slightly wrong (btw if messing up a grubber was the measuring stick for selection we'd be calling up backup from NZ after that Twickers game)
Not sure how or where he would be expected to "get involved" where that meant disrupting team systems. Does he push one of the forward runners out if the way?
Honestly, he was not "bad" or deserving of never playing again, as has been suggested on this thread, on the basis of that performance.
@booboo the fact we had nearly no ball and were totally dominated for 20 mins or so as well didnt help.
