Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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An epic Test.
POM deservedly MOTM, and Ireland deserved winners.
Schmidt has coached this team brilliantly to beat the ABs.
The try was excellent.
As many have said, you can't win the match without the ball. And yet that has been the game plan for NZ for some time.
Kick away possession with accuracy, put the opposition under pressure and either
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Turn the ball over against an unassembled defence and score
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Force the opposition to kick badly back to you and regain possession in a better part of the field, and score against a fractured defence.
NZ did this all match but were unable to force the above to happen.
Ireland knew what was coming, and executed practically flawlessly all match.
There was no guile from the ABs.
Honestly it was like watching Hansen coached Wales out there. And that is not a compliment.
An aside, how id Kearney escape a yellow?
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Oh, and one more, we are kicking a lot, but our kicks are shit. Either 10m too long, or 10m too short. We contest fuck all, just hand the ball back. Barrett, Smith especially, and DMac need to take responsibility for that, it's just not good enough. Our contested kicks used to be the weapon that got us out of our end, now they just invite endless pressure.
And what is with the mealy mid-range nothing kick offs we can't contest, or that force them back in to the corner?
@mariner4life said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
'lots of stuff in 3 posts above"I agree with everything you've said in those 3 posts, and as one of D-Macs biggest critics at this level, that hurts a little to say. I thought he was really good for 50mins today, and one of the likely ones to break it open against tired legs late. Not sure why he drifted so far left before Irelands try (he had 40m to cover), but equally not sure why Smith charged the line the way he did before the kick - seemed a massive miscommunication.
This game was won and lost at the breakdown for me though. We were too slow to get there and too ineffectual when we did. Scrums and lineouts pretty even, but we just lost key possession through ill discipline and poor ruck work that cost us dear. You can't give a side that kicks this well from hand and tee 8 penalties in the first 40mins. That was 9 points and a mountain of territory and momentum.
The 8, 9, 10 nexus looks fractured to me. Read very slow and out of sorts, and AS and BB have been covered at length in this thread. I think all are probably safe next year though, it would take a very brave move to drop any of the 3. I've still got time for Squire at 6, think he deserves more patience. I don't think Barrett is the answer at 6 for 80mins, mostly for reasons of balance as M4L covers above.
On the positive side, we had BBBR and Read and Coles all back from serious injury and all (hopefully) not at peak game fitness yet. I think we can trust the coaching to deliver the rest plan needed to get them all looking sharp again. If there is one thing we have seen at RWC's through the ages, is that they are not won by a bunch of young inexperienced bucks. They are typically won by teams with a core of hardened vets who have seen all manner of situations. Wouldn't be surprised to see a young wing (Bridge the bleeding obvious but could be another) emerge to challenge Naholo and to put DMac back towards the bench to get Smith back at 15 where he belongs.
I have a bunch of Irish mates who have been sending pictures all day of their celebrations - hurts like fck, but you can't argue its great for the game - 4 teams with genuine chances next year. Lets hope the ballot comes through for me!
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@samurai-jack common sense yes, consistency no.
Very clumsy/lazy attempt, seen plenty of YC's for much better efforts the past few years.
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Good game from both sides overall. Early discipline issues from the ABs probably gave Ireland a leg-up and they're good at controlling a game, tho they nearly lost it in that 50-65 minute mark.
Also in this initial period, there was a bit of disjointedness with AB ruck work - ball being placed at A Smith's feet while he's still busy organising the next play. The last man into the ruck wasn't covering up properly, and it wasn't always because he needed to clean out.
Barnes was interesting in that he got a lot of calls right, but the big ones he fell down on: 24th minute could have easily yellow carded Whitelock for being offisde, off his feet, knocking the ball down.
Similarly the first Irish try, the steal from POM that gave them lineout position upfield was clearly illegal. Also a yellow card should have been given to Kearney for his tackle in the air.
Savea should have been done multiple times in the second half for not being on his feet at ruck time, but Wayne had put the whistle away by then and let the players sort it out.
AB reserves added a bit of spice I thought, mostly on defence, but they'd been left too much to do.
Overall I think the ABs were just a little bit off, but also there were none of those bounce-of-the-ball plays that often follow a team who are playing well. Ireland have got a bunch of big boppers with good handling, and a back line that knows how to defend, get back to its feet, and play for each other, and know each other's game well.
The parallels between this Irish team and the ABs under McCaw are obvious: a core of players who have been around for a long time, supplemented by young roosters and a controlling 10. The only thing missing was Conor Murray who I'd say would have made Ireland's job even easier.
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@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
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@kev Yeah - they got dominated for 60 minutes today, but generally I think they're a pretty solid pack. I don't have too many concerns that when we need a big effort from them at the RWC that we will get it.
I think there's a few more fundamental issues in the backs, right now.
@chris-b yeah I think your right. Long term backs have lots of questions. Power players or skill players? Players in what positions? Is Aaron Smith going to regain his game? What tactics work?
In the forwards, only 6 is the question and I think Barrett should start. He is just better than Squire. Other than that it is about getting the performance where it needs to be. And Cane comes back.
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@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
I may be reaching but looking back, and at the time it seemed the kick decision changed everyone's psyche from there on. By everyone, I mean spectators alike. Ireland rose and we sorted of waited for this inevitable equalizing (?) try.
It was a decision that doesn't sit well, balls on the line, kick for an attacking lineout!
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@chris-b yeah I think your right. Long term backs have lots of questions. Power players or skill players? Players in what positions? Is Aaron Smith going to regain his game? What tactics work?
In the forwards, only 6 is the question and I think Barrett should start. He is just better than Squire. Other than that it is about getting the performance where it needs to be. And Cane comes back.
@kev Yeah - I think 6 is the position we're most likely to see a change in the forwards, but I'm inclined to think Hansen will stick with Squire and most of the other positions are pretty settled. Coles might surpass Taylor, but that would be all to the good - two excellent options. Otherwise the main interest is in the squaddies.
In the backs - Hansen must be wondering about 9, 12, and 14/15, plus a few other questions including quite how much he trusts Dmac and/or Mo'unga.
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Also, fuck it, I'm going there after a couple of nice Barossa Shiraz.
The Irish bottled it. They had the chance to put us right under the pump twice, and took the 3. Most nights, that winds upw ith a loss - we tend to lose to teams that score plenty and put us away; they had real opportunities to get another 7 points and potentially (given how the scrum was going) a man in the bin. Instead, 3 points.
It worked this morning, but I don't think it's percentage play. Holding the ABs to less than 20 points is bloody hard to do; even with us playing poorly, we almost cracked out a couple of tries.
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Also, fuck it, I'm going there after a couple of nice Barossa Shiraz.
The Irish bottled it. They had the chance to put us right under the pump twice, and took the 3. Most nights, that winds upw ith a loss - we tend to lose to teams that score plenty and put us away; they had real opportunities to get another 7 points and potentially (given how the scrum was going) a man in the bin. Instead, 3 points.
It worked this morning, but I don't think it's percentage play. Holding the ABs to less than 20 points is bloody hard to do; even with us playing poorly, we almost cracked out a couple of tries.
@nzzp the Irish turned down easy kickable penalties in the first half to go for the line. They were extremely confident in their defence stopping the ABs at the line, or chasing down any breaks the ABs made. Their set piece was working - though their scrum wasn't as dominant as everyone thinks - besides a couple of early shoves where Karl got stood up, the ABs held their own.
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Also, fuck it, I'm going there after a couple of nice Barossa Shiraz.
The Irish bottled it. They had the chance to put us right under the pump twice, and took the 3. Most nights, that winds upw ith a loss - we tend to lose to teams that score plenty and put us away; they had real opportunities to get another 7 points and potentially (given how the scrum was going) a man in the bin. Instead, 3 points.
It worked this morning, but I don't think it's percentage play. Holding the ABs to less than 20 points is bloody hard to do; even with us playing poorly, we almost cracked out a couple of tries.
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@nzzp the Irish turned down easy kickable penalties in the first half to go for the line. They were extremely confident in their defence stopping the ABs at the line, or chasing down any breaks the ABs made. Their set piece was working - though their scrum wasn't as dominant as everyone thinks - besides a couple of early shoves where Karl got stood up, the ABs held their own.
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Just watched the highlights of the Maori/Chile game. I know completely different level of opposition, but aspects of their game is what is currently missing from the ABs. Speed. Really good support play, someone always on the shoulder. Ball retention, chip or grubber kick the last option rather than the first. Did I mention speed. Loosies zooming in on the ball, runners busting up the middle.
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@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Just watched the last few minutes again.
Matt Todd should have started.
They should have brought him on much earlier than they did and it should have been for Read.
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One thing that also bugged me..and surely it's been mentioned is what happened to our must win attitude? That penalty with what was in 10 mins to go to bring the gap to 7, I saw going for that kick as an admission that we were happy settling for a draw. It should have been smashed to the corner and had everything thrown at the try line, sure we may have blown it and lost by 10 overall but at least we we'd have the right attitude and wouldn't die wondering.
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@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
I may be reaching but looking back, and at the time it seemed the kick decision changed everyone's psyche from there on. By everyone, I mean spectators alike. Ireland rose and we sorted of waited for this inevitable equalizing (?) try.
It was a decision that doesn't sit well, balls on the line, kick for an attacking lineout!
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
I may be reaching but looking back, and at the time it seemed the kick decision changed everyone's psyche from there on. By everyone, I mean spectators alike. Ireland rose and we sorted of waited for this inevitable equalizing (?) try.
It was a decision that doesn't sit well, balls on the line, kick for an attacking lineout!
Are talking the same 3 points? Was talking the dg post penalty advantage in the first half, as opposed to the shot at 10 points down later in the 2nd half.
Admittedly your comments apply to both ...
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@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Just watched the last few minutes again.
Matt Todd should have started.
They should have brought him on much earlier than they did and it should have been for Read.
@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Just watched the last few minutes again.
Matt Todd should have started.
They should have brought him on much earlier than they did and it should have been for Read.
Yep.
ABs should have finished with Todd, Ardie and DMac on the field.
