Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
I may be reaching but looking back, and at the time it seemed the kick decision changed everyone's psyche from there on. By everyone, I mean spectators alike. Ireland rose and we sorted of waited for this inevitable equalizing (?) try.
It was a decision that doesn't sit well, balls on the line, kick for an attacking lineout!
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@chris-b yeah I think your right. Long term backs have lots of questions. Power players or skill players? Players in what positions? Is Aaron Smith going to regain his game? What tactics work?
In the forwards, only 6 is the question and I think Barrett should start. He is just better than Squire. Other than that it is about getting the performance where it needs to be. And Cane comes back.
@kev Yeah - I think 6 is the position we're most likely to see a change in the forwards, but I'm inclined to think Hansen will stick with Squire and most of the other positions are pretty settled. Coles might surpass Taylor, but that would be all to the good - two excellent options. Otherwise the main interest is in the squaddies.
In the backs - Hansen must be wondering about 9, 12, and 14/15, plus a few other questions including quite how much he trusts Dmac and/or Mo'unga.
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Also, fuck it, I'm going there after a couple of nice Barossa Shiraz.
The Irish bottled it. They had the chance to put us right under the pump twice, and took the 3. Most nights, that winds upw ith a loss - we tend to lose to teams that score plenty and put us away; they had real opportunities to get another 7 points and potentially (given how the scrum was going) a man in the bin. Instead, 3 points.
It worked this morning, but I don't think it's percentage play. Holding the ABs to less than 20 points is bloody hard to do; even with us playing poorly, we almost cracked out a couple of tries.
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Also, fuck it, I'm going there after a couple of nice Barossa Shiraz.
The Irish bottled it. They had the chance to put us right under the pump twice, and took the 3. Most nights, that winds upw ith a loss - we tend to lose to teams that score plenty and put us away; they had real opportunities to get another 7 points and potentially (given how the scrum was going) a man in the bin. Instead, 3 points.
It worked this morning, but I don't think it's percentage play. Holding the ABs to less than 20 points is bloody hard to do; even with us playing poorly, we almost cracked out a couple of tries.
@nzzp the Irish turned down easy kickable penalties in the first half to go for the line. They were extremely confident in their defence stopping the ABs at the line, or chasing down any breaks the ABs made. Their set piece was working - though their scrum wasn't as dominant as everyone thinks - besides a couple of early shoves where Karl got stood up, the ABs held their own.
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Also, fuck it, I'm going there after a couple of nice Barossa Shiraz.
The Irish bottled it. They had the chance to put us right under the pump twice, and took the 3. Most nights, that winds upw ith a loss - we tend to lose to teams that score plenty and put us away; they had real opportunities to get another 7 points and potentially (given how the scrum was going) a man in the bin. Instead, 3 points.
It worked this morning, but I don't think it's percentage play. Holding the ABs to less than 20 points is bloody hard to do; even with us playing poorly, we almost cracked out a couple of tries.
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@nzzp the Irish turned down easy kickable penalties in the first half to go for the line. They were extremely confident in their defence stopping the ABs at the line, or chasing down any breaks the ABs made. Their set piece was working - though their scrum wasn't as dominant as everyone thinks - besides a couple of early shoves where Karl got stood up, the ABs held their own.
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Just watched the highlights of the Maori/Chile game. I know completely different level of opposition, but aspects of their game is what is currently missing from the ABs. Speed. Really good support play, someone always on the shoulder. Ball retention, chip or grubber kick the last option rather than the first. Did I mention speed. Loosies zooming in on the ball, runners busting up the middle.
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@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Just watched the last few minutes again.
Matt Todd should have started.
They should have brought him on much earlier than they did and it should have been for Read.
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One thing that also bugged me..and surely it's been mentioned is what happened to our must win attitude? That penalty with what was in 10 mins to go to bring the gap to 7, I saw going for that kick as an admission that we were happy settling for a draw. It should have been smashed to the corner and had everything thrown at the try line, sure we may have blown it and lost by 10 overall but at least we we'd have the right attitude and wouldn't die wondering.
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@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
I may be reaching but looking back, and at the time it seemed the kick decision changed everyone's psyche from there on. By everyone, I mean spectators alike. Ireland rose and we sorted of waited for this inevitable equalizing (?) try.
It was a decision that doesn't sit well, balls on the line, kick for an attacking lineout!
@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
I may be reaching but looking back, and at the time it seemed the kick decision changed everyone's psyche from there on. By everyone, I mean spectators alike. Ireland rose and we sorted of waited for this inevitable equalizing (?) try.
It was a decision that doesn't sit well, balls on the line, kick for an attacking lineout!
Are talking the same 3 points? Was talking the dg post penalty advantage in the first half, as opposed to the shot at 10 points down later in the 2nd half.
Admittedly your comments apply to both ...
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@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Just watched the last few minutes again.
Matt Todd should have started.
They should have brought him on much earlier than they did and it should have been for Read.
@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Just watched the last few minutes again.
Matt Todd should have started.
They should have brought him on much earlier than they did and it should have been for Read.
Yep.
ABs should have finished with Todd, Ardie and DMac on the field.
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@siam said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@act-crusader said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@booboo said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@crazy-horse said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel that's why I pondered whether it was a conincidence. None of us will really know. We only saw Goodhue taking the ball on the run once and having enough time to pass to Ioane, and that was from a decent Mo'unga pass.
I am not a Barrett hater before anyone accuses me of being one. I am not convinced he is a world cup winning 10.
Well we know he can kick drop goals at least
.But why?
Free reign to have a crack with ball in hand, always coming back for the penalty if we fucked up ... so un-All Black
Not true. I can recall a number of times that Carter attempted drop goals under a penalty advantage. He didn’t land many but what was he thinking by taking them?
The point there is settling for the 3. In recent years they've tended to back themselves to have a crack. Would have been better off (IMO) to try for 5.
I may be reaching but looking back, and at the time it seemed the kick decision changed everyone's psyche from there on. By everyone, I mean spectators alike. Ireland rose and we sorted of waited for this inevitable equalizing (?) try.
It was a decision that doesn't sit well, balls on the line, kick for an attacking lineout!
Are talking the same 3 points? Was talking the dg post penalty advantage in the first half, as opposed to the shot at 10 points down later in the 2nd half.
Admittedly your comments apply to both ...
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Some thoughts on the game on the morning after..
Our tactics were poor with too many ineffective kicks and we rarely seemed to get decent possession when we went for the high ball option - yet we continued to kick right to the end....normally straight into the hands of an Irish player.
Did we do our homework? Wales have shown Ireland are vulnerable if you play wide and outnumber them at ensuing rucks. We didn't.
There were too many silly errors and some dumb penalties. In the past the team would reset by a few phases of fail-safe rugby to get their mind-set right. That didn't happen. Read and the leadership group need to re-focus.
Our scrum has gone backwards. It was pretty dominant in the RC but was poor in the 1st half. Improved when Nepo & Ofa came on.
We are definitely missing Sam Cane who may well be the key player for us next year. That said, Ardie has been immense.
Execution has been generally poor by AB standards this year. It's almost as if there's some collective lack of confidence going on.
The DMac, Beaudy, Mo'unga, Ben Smith conundrum. Hansen has so much talent but at some stage we need settled combinations. I think the best option is BB starting with Ritchie and DMac coming on for impact. That said, I'd love to see Ritchie starting a test or two with BB at fullback, then DMac on and BB moving to 10.
4 years after Conrad & Ma'a and we are still buggering about with midfield combinations, FFS.
We didn't think on our feet in this game and that's the really, really worrying bit. The game was there for the taking in the last 20 minutes and we went into panic mode, were impatient and flustered.
No need to panic and better a crap performance exposing issues now, rather than in RWC2019, but there's a lot to work on.
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I'd say the reality is most AB fans have been acutely aware of the slide since we lost to then barely scraped by SA and got extremely lucky with England. Realistically we could have lost all those games.
If the loss to England a few years back was a pebble under the towel, this is a stalagmite.
@mofitzy_ said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
and got extremely lucky with England
I don't think it was luck. We reset our thinking and pulled ourselves back against England in poor conditions and hung on for a win, even when we weren't playing well.
That didn't happen against Ireland.
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Some thoughts on the game on the morning after..
Our tactics were poor with too many ineffective kicks and we rarely seemed to get decent possession when we went for the high ball option - yet we continued to kick right to the end....normally straight into the hands of an Irish player.
Did we do our homework? Wales have shown Ireland are vulnerable if you play wide and outnumber them at ensuing rucks. We didn't.
There were too many silly errors and some dumb penalties. In the past the team would reset by a few phases of fail-safe rugby to get their mind-set right. That didn't happen. Read and the leadership group need to re-focus.
Our scrum has gone backwards. It was pretty dominant in the RC but was poor in the 1st half. Improved when Nepo & Ofa came on.
We are definitely missing Sam Cane who may well be the key player for us next year. That said, Ardie has been immense.
Execution has been generally poor by AB standards this year. It's almost as if there's some collective lack of confidence going on.
The DMac, Beaudy, Mo'unga, Ben Smith conundrum. Hansen has so much talent but at some stage we need settled combinations. I think the best option is BB starting with Ritchie and DMac coming on for impact. That said, I'd love to see Ritchie starting a test or two with BB at fullback, then DMac on and BB moving to 10.
4 years after Conrad & Ma'a and we are still buggering about with midfield combinations, FFS.
We didn't think on our feet in this game and that's the really, really worrying bit. The game was there for the taking in the last 20 minutes and we went into panic mode, were impatient and flustered.
No need to panic and better a crap performance exposing issues now, rather than in RWC2019, but there's a lot to work on.
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@mofitzy_ said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
and got extremely lucky with England
I don't think it was luck. We reset our thinking and pulled ourselves back against England in poor conditions and hung on for a win, even when we weren't playing well.
That didn't happen against Ireland.
@victor-meldrew said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
I don't think it was luck. We reset our thinking and pulled ourselves back against England in poor conditions and hung on for a win, even when we weren't playing well.
That didn't happen against Ireland.
An important point. Read got the plaudits after the England win by going for the scrum at the end of the 1st half instead of settling for a penalty. So he needs to cop any criticism in this loss because there was a lack of leadership and direction out there.
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@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Just watched the last few minutes again.
Matt Todd should have started.
They should have brought him on much earlier than they did and it should have been for Read.
@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
They should have brought him on much earlier than they did and it should have been for Read.
Yeah, I couldn't believe they waited so long to bring Todd on. Just to change things up, even if it meant subbing BBBR or Whitelock and moving Barrett into lock.
He's no longer the ABs good luck charm now.
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For those advocating for Laumape for Crotty, while I understand the sentiment, particularly offensively, it's worth a 2nd viewing of the first half of this game. Crotty was an absolute machine on D. Absolutely everywhere, must have had 12 tackles in the half
