Has Hansen gone stale?
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@crucial
Perhaps you are right but Henry and Hansen both went straight from NH to NZ. I also think both coaches have an understanding of horses for courses, I don't think they would try to have NZ play exactly like Ireland or Wales.@mofitzy_ said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@crucial
Perhaps you are right but Henry and Hansen both went straight from NH to NZ. I also think both coaches have an understanding of horses for courses, I don't think they would try to have NZ play exactly like Ireland or Wales.That was when we needed consolidation and a shakeup, so yes, get the best proven managers with the best ideas to come in and sort shit out.
I don't think we are in that position now. -
@mofitzy_ said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@crucial
Perhaps you are right but Henry and Hansen both went straight from NH to NZ. I also think both coaches have an understanding of horses for courses, I don't think they would try to have NZ play exactly like Ireland or Wales.That was when we needed consolidation and a shakeup, so yes, get the best proven managers with the best ideas to come in and sort shit out.
I don't think we are in that position now. -
@mofitzy_ said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
I also highly doubt Schmidt is retiring aged 53. Same goes for Gatland. I'm sure the NZRU is in dialogue with both men.
I just don't get this concept that because a coach is successful in the NH that they are the best placed to continue driving the ABs forward with innovations and abilities ahead of everyone else.
These guys have done very well to pull previous basket case teams into solid units and in Schmidt's case has shown some very good tactical analysis.
This is an entirely different proposition to taking a team that is at the front of the pack and looking to keep ahead by reacting to the reactions of those chasing.
Look at what the current coaching regime are currently doing. They know that they can't continue the way they are going as every other team works out how to shut that down and have to go through some 'tough' times while readjusting and preparing to overcome that.
We don't want to slog it out on an even footing, we want to be on the high ground.Coaches from within the NZ systems will be far more in tune with how we are evolving and I would hate that the ABs played like Wales or Ireland.
@crucial said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
This is an entirely different proposition to taking a team that is at the front of the pack and looking to keep ahead by reacting to the reactions of those chasing.
It's also a different proposition coaching at Super level where it often becomes a bit of a "weakest link" exercise. Every team has glaring weaknesses (due to squad limits, injuries travel or just the talent being spread) and each franchise having a handful of world class players able to exploit those given the chance.
Tactically, at International level the opposition has very few visible weaknesses and it a lot more about developing the strengths of your own game and that comes back to that constant improvement thing with Hansen you mentioned.
Is there an international coach that at international level isn't given some pretty humbling lessons pretty quickly at that level? For that reason I'd be leery of picking an AB head coach who didn't have international head coach experience outside NZ - regardless of their provincial alignment.
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A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
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Needless to say, but I shall anyway for the Ferners, the result next year will be pivotal.
A threepeat means Fozzie in. Failure and alternatives will be considered.@pakman said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Needless to say, but I shall anyway for the Ferners, the result next year will be pivotal.
A threepeat means Fozzie in. Failure and alternatives will be considered.They will have to take applications if Hansen steps down regardless, like they did in 2011.
I thought Foster's achilles heel would be putting together a quality backroom for his ticket but my mate floated something which could well be spot on - pure conjecture:
- Gats is already on board to be the lead assistant under Foster. Rationale being they worked together before, apparently live next door and have a good relationship.
- Third assistant comes from current Super coaching staff. Foster's preference would likely be Cooper given their history but NZRU may prefer another.
FWIW also floated Plumtree as a natural assistant candidate for Schmidt given their work in the early part of his tenure in Ireland in addition to the obvious choices of Cotter, Feek and Gibbes.
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I think the input that joe or gats could provide , particularly their knowledge on the nh game would be invaluable, it’s a matter of tapping into that in the right way .
Part of the coaching team , not taking over the reins completely, might be the way to go .
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@pakman said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Needless to say, but I shall anyway for the Ferners, the result next year will be pivotal.
A threepeat means Fozzie in. Failure and alternatives will be considered.They will have to take applications if Hansen steps down regardless, like they did in 2011.
I thought Foster's achilles heel would be putting together a quality backroom for his ticket but my mate floated something which could well be spot on - pure conjecture:
- Gats is already on board to be the lead assistant under Foster. Rationale being they worked together before, apparently live next door and have a good relationship.
- Third assistant comes from current Super coaching staff. Foster's preference would likely be Cooper given their history but NZRU may prefer another.
FWIW also floated Plumtree as a natural assistant candidate for Schmidt given their work in the early part of his tenure in Ireland in addition to the obvious choices of Cotter, Feek and Gibbes.
@rotated thats the key to any successful coach though isnt it - the people he has under/around him.
You could argue Hansen hasnt looked quite as good since having Foster & McLeod...but by the same token, as you say, Foster might be able to pull it off with that team you mention, even if he doesnt quite have it within the current team.
Only thing is, would Gats be able to take a step backwards to being an assistant?
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@rotated thats the key to any successful coach though isnt it - the people he has under/around him.
You could argue Hansen hasnt looked quite as good since having Foster & McLeod...but by the same token, as you say, Foster might be able to pull it off with that team you mention, even if he doesnt quite have it within the current team.
Only thing is, would Gats be able to take a step backwards to being an assistant?
@taniwharugby said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@rotated thats the key to any successful coach though isnt it - the people he has under/around him.
You could argue Hansen hasnt looked quite as good since having Foster & McLeod...but by the same token, as you say, Foster might be able to pull it off with that team you mention, even if he doesnt quite have it within the current team.
Only thing is, would Gats be able to take a step backwards to being an assistant?
I think he could if he thought it might be the only way to the top job eventually.
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If we had to know half the back room stuff before we could comment on coaches or players, we might as well shut down TSF now.
It’s hard to ever truely know, even when the books have come out later...I make some inferences on Foster based on how I remember his days as a head coach at the Chiefs, his comments as an assistant coach, and how the All Blacks have performed since Wayne Smith left.
Foster wouldn’t be a disaster as coach, but he’d be roughly third or fourth choice on my short list.
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A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
@crucial said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
We know he had to be forced into selecting Reiko Ioane, and told Hanson it was "a fucking stupid idea" to play him on the left wing instead of Naholo. Speaks to his ability as a selector.
From the outside, he appears to be a very stubborn selector - even when things aren't working well. Better coaches seem able to change their mind on players, or try new things.
The talent in NZ lets us paper over these sorts of cracks.
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Lifelong Auckland supporter here says, I’d love to see Razor appointed head coach of the ABs.
(How many ex-ABs have graduated to coach the team? Needle, Lochore, Grizz, Laurie, Wayne S...who am I missing?) (I guess Mitch, too.)
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A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
@crucial said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
Hansen has previously said that Foster has been in charge of the AB trainings for some time, including when Smith was still involved. This doesn't mean I'm advocating he be the next AB coach, just answering your question.
I am sure the NZR board would get feedback from the players, especially the leadership group, about the merits of any coach in the current setup when they make a decision.
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@crucial said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
A question for the 'anyone but Foster' brigade.
Do you know what input he currently has? Do you know how the players interact/respect him? How much development has he put in so far?
I don't know the answers to those questions but I would think that the NZRU do.
They would know far more through his performance reviews than they would about another guy. Same goes regarding Super coaches.
I agree with @rotated about a coach new to internationals being exposed but that is the reason for succession planning whether that is for head coach or a new head coach with some continuation from assistants. I would be very wary of a new broom approach when it isn't needed.
We know he had to be forced into selecting Reiko Ioane, and told Hanson it was "a fucking stupid idea" to play him on the left wing instead of Naholo. Speaks to his ability as a selector.
From the outside, he appears to be a very stubborn selector - even when things aren't working well. Better coaches seem able to change their mind on players, or try new things.
The talent in NZ lets us paper over these sorts of cracks.
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@frank TBF he aint gonna slate someone they have selected are they, of course if they have selected him, they are gonna talk him up, but notice they often only do this for underfire players: NMS, SBW....
I suspect this will be the last year NMS will play for the ABs.
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Foster would be a disaster, at least by AB standards.
He's a good technical coach, but we'd see the old Chiefs in black. They knew what they were meant to be doing, they just couldn't do it.
Poor, and stubbornly retained, selection decisions. Teams going into big games in the wrong head space. A lack of regard for getting the tight game and set phase 100% before worrying about fluffy stuff.
Count me in the anyone but Foster crew.
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Foster would be a disaster, at least by AB standards.
He's a good technical coach, but we'd see the old Chiefs in black. They knew what they were meant to be doing, they just couldn't do it.
Poor, and stubbornly retained, selection decisions. Teams going into big games in the wrong head space. A lack of regard for getting the tight game and set phase 100% before worrying about fluffy stuff.
Count me in the anyone but Foster crew.
@chester-draws you describing the Chiefs under Foster or the recent ABs?
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@chester-draws you describing the Chiefs under Foster or the recent ABs?
@crazy-horse This isn't poor selecting -- the Fern would agree with most of the current AB team.
Foster's Chiefs were a very different kettle of fish, with provincial bias for a start (something the recent ABs have largely avoided).
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@crazy-horse This isn't poor selecting -- the Fern would agree with most of the current AB team.
Foster's Chiefs were a very different kettle of fish, with provincial bias for a start (something the recent ABs have largely avoided).
@chester-draws stubborn selecting then? More than a few on here have questioned selections recently. Akira, SBW, NMS...
