Exodus
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@Nepia Here's the make up of the club squads that are currently top 6 in the PRO14 - split across two conferences:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
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@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
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@chris-b said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@nepia said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum Only 5 NZers in Italy? That doesn't seem correct.
Awesome graph spam though! :thumbs_up_medium_skin_tone:
I only looked at players who were born in each country. Where they grew up, moved to, who their parents are is not taken account of. Just raw numbers on where a player was born. I looked at wiki pages for each club, union and club websites. And it's professional teams only - so only two in Italy.
Interesting stuff - well done!
So the French basically can field 22 XVs of SH players!
They've fucked themselves and are slowly taking the rest of us with them!
Indeed. Except Murphy's Law will now apply and they'll probably go and win the world cup with all French-born players just to piss us all off.
@derm-mccrum If Argentina can buck up their ideas, France might not even make it out of their pool. A result I will, frankly, be cheering for.
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@derm-mccrum If Argentina can buck up their ideas, France might not even make it out of their pool. A result I will, frankly, be cheering for.
@chris-b said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum If Argentina can buck up their ideas, France might not even make it out of their pool. A result I will, frankly, be cheering for.
Even though it might be through gritted teeth, I might join you.
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@chris-b said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum If Argentina can buck up their ideas, France might not even make it out of their pool. A result I will, frankly, be cheering for.
Even though it might be through gritted teeth, I might join you.
@derm-mccrum Yes, well, I might be overtaken by schadenfreude if it is England that is teetering...
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@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together. -
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
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@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
And, please, do that in a separate thread. This thread is about the exodus of players/coaches in 2019.
Now, I think of it. Maybe, if a mod would be so kind to move all these stats posts to a new, separate thread?
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6 of 20, just checking Canada... Nope he's Welsh Edit see below
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/97920844/rugby-coaches-becoming-boom-nz-export-sector
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6 of 20, just checking Canada... Nope he's Welsh Edit see below
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/97920844/rugby-coaches-becoming-boom-nz-export-sector
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
6 of 20, just checking Canada... Nope he's Welsh Edit see below
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/97920844/rugby-coaches-becoming-boom-nz-export-sector
That article is sooo last year.
Keane got the boot at Connacht last season.
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@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
And, please, do that in a separate thread. This thread is about the exodus of players/coaches in 2019.
Now, I think of it. Maybe, if a mod would be so kind to move all these stats posts to a new, separate thread?
@stargazer said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
And, please, do that in a separate thread. This thread is about the exodus of players/coaches in 2019.
Now, I think of it. Maybe, if a mod would be so kind to move all these stats posts to a new, separate thread?
No way. They’re staying here. They’re relevant - to where they’ve gone.
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@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together.@kruse said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together.Blame
Stephen Aboud, Academy Systems
Eddie O’Sullivan - Player Management
Eddie Wigglesworth, Player Succession Strategy,
David Nucifora, Performance Director,
Anthony Eddy, Sevens
& Joe Schmidt, National Test Team.
Phillip Browne, CEO -
@stargazer said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
And, please, do that in a separate thread. This thread is about the exodus of players/coaches in 2019.
Now, I think of it. Maybe, if a mod would be so kind to move all these stats posts to a new, separate thread?
No way. They’re staying here. They’re relevant - to where they’ve gone.
@derm-mccrum Then make a past-exodus thread.
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@derm-mccrum Then make a past-exodus thread.
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@derm-mccrum Then make a past-exodus thread.
@stargazer said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum Then make a past-exodus thread.
It's not actually a real biggie. Don't let it stress you
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@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together.@kruse said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together.of course they have, and it's fucking great. It's awesome to see what is achieved when the entire system is pointed in one direction. They have also made smart decisions with regards to personnel.
Add in their geographical advantages (5 other top-tier rugby nations within shorter flight times than it would take me to get to the capital city of my state, let alone country) and it's a strong, sustainable combination that should continue to deliver positive results.
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@kruse said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together.of course they have, and it's fucking great. It's awesome to see what is achieved when the entire system is pointed in one direction. They have also made smart decisions with regards to personnel.
Add in their geographical advantages (5 other top-tier rugby nations within shorter flight times than it would take me to get to the capital city of my state, let alone country) and it's a strong, sustainable combination that should continue to deliver positive results.
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@kruse said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@mariner4life said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum are those Irish squad sizes correct? Between 60 and 69 players? Does that include the reserves side?
All the 6 teams include both the senior and academy squads as they're called. In Ireland, we don't have "reserves' as such. The PRO14 Championship is 21 rounds, the European Cup has 6 pool rounds, (plus knockouts) and there's 10-12 tests to play, so players get game time. Last season, Leinster used 55 players during the season.
At the weekend just gone, they went away to Dragons in Wales. Cullen decided to throw his kids in at the deep end, minded by Grandad Fardy. 5 first team benchers, 11 second and third choice, and 7 academy 19/20 year olds - mainly in the backline. 4 of the academy kids scored on the night in a absolute routing 59-10. The academy keeps on giving.
Never mind the dry powder, metres-gained metrics, etc, etc... THIS, this gives me the fucking fear, as an All Blacks supporter.
It really sounds like Ireland has got their shit together.of course they have, and it's fucking great. It's awesome to see what is achieved when the entire system is pointed in one direction. They have also made smart decisions with regards to personnel.
Add in their geographical advantages (5 other top-tier rugby nations within shorter flight times than it would take me to get to the capital city of my state, let alone country) and it's a strong, sustainable combination that should continue to deliver positive results.
Wales and Scotland have started to follow suit - Wales now have about 60 in their academies and they are starting to bear fruit with more investment from WRU to come through.
Scotland have some green shoots starting but their playing pool isn't getting any bigger for now- and some of their key players are still going to England or France. Hogg the latest. -
@mofitzy_ said in Exodus 2019:
@derm-mccrum said in Exodus 2019:
@machpants said in Exodus 2019:
The Boks probably have the most players in overseas leagues, the PI the most percentage of players, but man how many NZ pro/semi pro coaches are around the world? Really I think coaching is NZs biggest advantage, and because there are so few slots available here we are spreading our power (see Lions, Ireland). What are coaches salaries like, in Top 14 etc, compared to players?
Conveniently ignores the international coaches which are the cream of the crop.
Someone should do head coaches of the next RWC.
Not sure how a graphic illustrating coaches at club level in a response to a discussion about club coaches manages to conveniently ignores test coaches. But dont’ let me stop you feeling all aggrieved and offended - it is Tuesday after all.
I’ve got an idea - why don’t you list the head coaches for the next RWC? That could be interesting.
@derm-mccrum
Perhaps because that post is in response to a post that explicitly mentions Schmidt and Gatland? A bottom of the table Pro14 club coach from another country isn't relevant to loss of NZ depth as the last Lions coach or grand slam winning coach in a thread about NZ rugby players and coaches overseas in 2019.
