Grace Millane
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I agree she should have been safe. Just as I should have been safe walking anywhere in Buenos Aires or parts of Cambodia or any of the other places I have been warned never to venture.
I guess I should have been able to get a drink in the Old Rising Sun pub right here in Auckland rather than be told I was the wrong fucking colour and that if I stayed another minute both my legs would get broken.
People should feel safe on the streets, with strangers - in their own homes - day or night - anywhere, anytime.
Unfortunately that ain't the world we live in. Never has been and sadly probably never will be and no amount of posturing hysteria is going to alter that.
Grace Millane's father obviously realises this and has responded with a personal dignity in devastating circumstances that is a true salute to his daughters too short life. The social and mainstream media moirologists and our PM should follow his example instead of trying to outdo each other with displays of faux grief and outrage.
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hate needing to google word meanings...
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@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
hate needing to google word meanings...
I like the challenge of being taught new words.
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@booboo I dont mind new words, but as this is one I am very unlikely to ever use again, I wasted 1 second of my life I'll never get back
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@bones Just voicing my opinion, however unfashionable that may be......
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.
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@sparky said in Grace Millane:
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.well the Jury I sat on this week, the evidence was such that the guy was found Not Guilty on both charges the Crown was trying him for.
I expect many cases are like that, but you are are endorsing trial by media and public opinion, and as such would most certainly sway some peoples opinion because of a slanted article they read or a post they saw on Facebook.
In this case, even without knowing his name I expect plenty have already determined thier opinion, so not sure what difference releasing his name makes anyway, if anything I think it would endanger his family and friends more due to the high profile nature of this case, cos there are fuckwits among us.
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@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.well the Jury I sat on this week, the evidence was such that the guy was found Not Guilty on both charges the Crown was trying him for.
I expect many cases are like that, but you are are endorsing trial by media and public opinion.....
No, I'm endorsing trial by jury and the media to be free to report as they see fit. I have faith in the jury system to robustly assess whether the accused are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, irrespective of what the Fourth Estate choose to publish.
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@sparky really? Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
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@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
Not sure what you meant by this?
But over the past 5 or 10 years it has become increasingly harder (and onerous even for self employed persons) to get off Jury Service (not sure if this is nationwide or just up here...) I went through a period over 6 or 7 years where I was called up at least twice a year but never got on the Jury...even the impending birth of my daughter wasnt enough to get me off attending...the one way I did get off though, was to simply not turn up, I then didnt get called up for 4 years.
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@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
Not sure what you meant by this?
But over the past 5 or 10 years it has become increasingly harder (and onerous even for self employed persons) to get off Jury Service (not sure if this is nationwide or just up here...) I went through a period over 6 or 7 years where I was called up at least twice a year but never got on the Jury...even the impending birth of my daughter wasnt enough to get me off attending...the one way I did get off though, was to simply not turn up, I then didnt get called up for 4 years.
I diverted a call up to next near. A no show? I did not think of that strategy.....
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@sparky said in Grace Millane:
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.well the Jury I sat on this week, the evidence was such that the guy was found Not Guilty on both charges the Crown was trying him for.
I expect many cases are like that, but you are are endorsing trial by media and public opinion.....
No, I'm endorsing trial by jury and the media to be free to report as they see fit. I have faith in the jury system to robustly assess whether the accused are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, irrespective of what the Fourth Estate choose to publish.
The NZ Law society has been critical of the media's reporting, potentially compromising the case. Although not explicitly stated I'd say Jacinda's little speech would be included in that.
The jury process basically boils down to a handful of individuals that are liable, like all of us, to be influenced by what they see/hear and also by public pressure to throw the book at someone in a high profile case. Fundamental to our society is the rights of everyone to a fair trial no matter what, if you throw that out the window things fall apart pretty quickly.
As it stands we don't have any of the facts, yet he's already been found guilty by the media, social media and even our idiotic PM before it's started.
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@taniwharugby the old saying goes something like "trust your fate to 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty".
I don't know how difficult that has become as I've never been called upon. And as a contractor I'd be reticent to do so.
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@canefan said in Grace Millane:
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
Not sure what you meant by this?
But over the past 5 or 10 years it has become increasingly harder (and onerous even for self employed persons) to get off Jury Service (not sure if this is nationwide or just up here...) I went through a period over 6 or 7 years where I was called up at least twice a year but never got on the Jury...even the impending birth of my daughter wasnt enough to get me off attending...the one way I did get off though, was to simply not turn up, I then didnt get called up for 4 years.
I diverted a call up to next near. A no show? I did not think of that strategy.....
Shave your head , draw some swaztikas on yourself . Black out some teeth, dress apparently feral.
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@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
@taniwharugby the old saying goes something like "trust your fate to 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty".
I don't know how difficult that has become as I've never been called upon. And as a contractor I'd be reticent to do so.
TR is right. It's very hard to get out of it these days. I might have to resort to wearing a 'Garth McVicar is my homeboy' t shirt
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@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@booboo I dont mind new words, but as this is one I am very unlikely to ever use again, I wasted 1 second of my life I'll never get back
that's what your wife said...
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When this guys name does eventually become public then we're really pushing shit uphill in terms of a fair trial judging by what has already been said. It'll be another Gabriel Tostee situation. I'll reiterate what I said about him at the time: he sounds like a colossal dickwad but not a murderer. Try telling that to every feminist who called for his head though.....
