Grace Millane
-
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.well the Jury I sat on this week, the evidence was such that the guy was found Not Guilty on both charges the Crown was trying him for.
I expect many cases are like that, but you are are endorsing trial by media and public opinion.....
No, I'm endorsing trial by jury and the media to be free to report as they see fit. I have faith in the jury system to robustly assess whether the accused are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, irrespective of what the Fourth Estate choose to publish.
-
@sparky really? Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
-
@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
Not sure what you meant by this?
But over the past 5 or 10 years it has become increasingly harder (and onerous even for self employed persons) to get off Jury Service (not sure if this is nationwide or just up here...) I went through a period over 6 or 7 years where I was called up at least twice a year but never got on the Jury...even the impending birth of my daughter wasnt enough to get me off attending...the one way I did get off though, was to simply not turn up, I then didnt get called up for 4 years.
-
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
Not sure what you meant by this?
But over the past 5 or 10 years it has become increasingly harder (and onerous even for self employed persons) to get off Jury Service (not sure if this is nationwide or just up here...) I went through a period over 6 or 7 years where I was called up at least twice a year but never got on the Jury...even the impending birth of my daughter wasnt enough to get me off attending...the one way I did get off though, was to simply not turn up, I then didnt get called up for 4 years.
I diverted a call up to next near. A no show? I did not think of that strategy.....
-
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.well the Jury I sat on this week, the evidence was such that the guy was found Not Guilty on both charges the Crown was trying him for.
I expect many cases are like that, but you are are endorsing trial by media and public opinion.....
No, I'm endorsing trial by jury and the media to be free to report as they see fit. I have faith in the jury system to robustly assess whether the accused are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, irrespective of what the Fourth Estate choose to publish.
The NZ Law society has been critical of the media's reporting, potentially compromising the case. Although not explicitly stated I'd say Jacinda's little speech would be included in that.
The jury process basically boils down to a handful of individuals that are liable, like all of us, to be influenced by what they see/hear and also by public pressure to throw the book at someone in a high profile case. Fundamental to our society is the rights of everyone to a fair trial no matter what, if you throw that out the window things fall apart pretty quickly.
As it stands we don't have any of the facts, yet he's already been found guilty by the media, social media and even our idiotic PM before it's started.
-
@taniwharugby the old saying goes something like "trust your fate to 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty".
I don't know how difficult that has become as I've never been called upon. And as a contractor I'd be reticent to do so.
-
@canefan said in Grace Millane:
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
Not sure what you meant by this?
But over the past 5 or 10 years it has become increasingly harder (and onerous even for self employed persons) to get off Jury Service (not sure if this is nationwide or just up here...) I went through a period over 6 or 7 years where I was called up at least twice a year but never got on the Jury...even the impending birth of my daughter wasnt enough to get me off attending...the one way I did get off though, was to simply not turn up, I then didnt get called up for 4 years.
I diverted a call up to next near. A no show? I did not think of that strategy.....
Shave your head , draw some swaztikas on yourself . Black out some teeth, dress apparently feral.
-
@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
@taniwharugby the old saying goes something like "trust your fate to 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty".
I don't know how difficult that has become as I've never been called upon. And as a contractor I'd be reticent to do so.
TR is right. It's very hard to get out of it these days. I might have to resort to wearing a 'Garth McVicar is my homeboy' t shirt
-
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@booboo I dont mind new words, but as this is one I am very unlikely to ever use again, I wasted 1 second of my life I'll never get back
that's what your wife said...
-
When this guys name does eventually become public then we're really pushing shit uphill in terms of a fair trial judging by what has already been said. It'll be another Gabriel Tostee situation. I'll reiterate what I said about him at the time: he sounds like a colossal dickwad but not a murderer. Try telling that to every feminist who called for his head though.....
-
@mariner4life said in Grace Millane:
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@booboo I dont mind new words, but as this is one I am very unlikely to ever use again, I wasted 1 second of my life I'll never get back
that's what your wife said...
The Christmas spirit has well and truly arrived
-
@mariner4life said in Grace Millane:
that's what your wife said...
quality not quantity bro!
@canefan I only didnt bother turning up after I had heard one of the court registrars tell someone that they only send fines if too few people turn up.
Pretty sure on my file there was a box that was ticked saying 'idiot turns up every time' but after I didnt, it was unchecked.
I tried my utmost to get out of Jury many many times during that period I was getting it all the time, not once did I get off.
They were even trying to tell my wife who had a 3 month old that she would have to attend (when she mentioned breast feeding they backed off)
-
@taniwharugby when I did jury service in London I expected to get off based on the fact that overnight there had been an arson attack on my office and I need to sort shit out.
Not a chance and there were a handful of cop cars used to round up no shows as well.
Use your imagination re moirologist.
I can think of a number of ways you could use it during the Perth test this weekend.
Its not over until the moirologists turn up, he appealed like a well paid moirolgist, the Aussie selectors are rounding up the moirolgists
-
-
@canefan Having a closed court session excluding the media and public would be a logical start. Any breaches of name suppression then could only be atttributable to lawyers, court staff, police etc.
If name suppression is denied then a public statement is released.
-
According to Kirsty Johnston in the Herald Grace had been raped.
I think her evidence is based on ... she appears to have been murdered ... maybe ... by a man ... maybe ... all men are rapists ... ipso facto ...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12176084
-
@booboo said in Grace Millane:
According to Kirsty Johnston in the Herald Grace had been raped.
I think her evidence is based on ... she appears to have been murdered ... maybe ... by a man ... maybe ... all men are rapists ... ipso facto ...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12176084
Look on the bright side. She's seething.
Stuff
