Has Hansen gone stale?
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How many of those guys in the top 5 do we think could work together ?
I am concerned with the thought of Foster , without much recognized support behind him ,
Put a good team around him , no where near as worried .
@kiwiinmelb said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
How many of those guys in the top 5 do we think could work together ?
Foster and Gatland are former teammates so could work together.
Robertson should not be at such short odds. Still needs more time and I'd like to see how he goes with the Crusaders in 2020 when the core of that team won't be there anymore. Maybe after the next RWC cycle.
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How many of those guys in the top 5 do we think could work together ?
I am concerned with the thought of Foster , without much recognized support behind him ,
Put a good team around him , no where near as worried .
@kiwiinmelb said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
How many of those guys in the top 5 do we think could work together ?
Assuming the bottom four are jokes...
Schmidt and Cotter obviously seem a likely ticket. Gats worked under Foster at the Chiefs in '07, live down the street from one another and were team mates.
Gats is a wild card though I could see him doing anything between wanting the Aussie job and happily settling as an assistant under Foster. Razor same thing except sub the Aussie job for an NH posting.
Rennie is technically contracted to the end of the '19/20 European season which would make a head coach tilt difficult, but could be an assistant and join after the season like Smith did in '04 - doesn't really have any strong links to anyone listed there does he? Would be difficult to fall in behind Foster who he completely showed up in '12-13.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
How many of those guys in the top 5 do we think could work together ?
Assuming the bottom four are jokes...
Schmidt and Cotter obviously seem a likely ticket. Gats worked under Foster at the Chiefs in '07, live down the street from one another and were team mates.
Gats is a wild card though I could see him doing anything between wanting the Aussie job and happily settling as an assistant under Foster. Razor same thing except sub the Aussie job for an NH posting.
Rennie is technically contracted to the end of the '19/20 European season which would make a head coach tilt difficult, but could be an assistant and join after the season like Smith did in '04 - doesn't really have any strong links to anyone listed there does he? Would be difficult to fall in behind Foster who he completely showed up in '12-13.
@rotated said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Rennie is technically contracted to the end of the '19/20 European season which would make a head coach tilt difficult, but could be an assistant and join after the season like Smith did in '04 - doesn't really have any strong links to anyone listed there does he? Would be difficult to fall in behind Foster who he completely showed up in '12-13.
I think Rennie has the temperament to work under any of the others - maybe even Foster?
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@kiwiinmelb said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
How many of those guys in the top 5 do we think could work together ?
Foster and Gatland are former teammates so could work together.
Robertson should not be at such short odds. Still needs more time and I'd like to see how he goes with the Crusaders in 2020 when the core of that team won't be there anymore. Maybe after the next RWC cycle.
@bovidae said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Robertson should not be at such short odds.
The tough thing for Razor without international experience, his strong domestic resume with the Crusaders will just be met with Deans comparisons. Plus the 2016 Under 20s effort was a debacle and while most of the public won't care I'm sure it would be on the radar of the board if comparing resumes with Foster, Schmidt etc.
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@bovidae said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Robertson should not be at such short odds.
The tough thing for Razor without international experience, his strong domestic resume with the Crusaders will just be met with Deans comparisons. Plus the 2016 Under 20s effort was a debacle and while most of the public won't care I'm sure it would be on the radar of the board if comparing resumes with Foster, Schmidt etc.
@rotated said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@bovidae said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Robertson should not be at such short odds.
The tough thing for Razor without international experience, his strong domestic resume with the Crusaders will just be met with Deans comparisons. Plus the 2016 Under 20s effort was a debacle and while most of the public won't care I'm sure it would be on the radar of the board if comparing resumes with Foster, Schmidt etc.
I wonder how they balance out a win and a not making the finals though? Foster will be judged on his time in the ABs camp, Schmidt on his time in Europe and presumably not on his time as assistant at the Blues. Be interesting how a panel decides to rate all of that.
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TAB's hypothetical market on Hansens replacement...if they were running a real book I dont expect a few of those names would actually appear, or should be much longer odds...
Where was this hypothetical market posted?
I'd be piling into Schmidt and Gatland at those prices.
Lay Fossie till your nose bleeds at evens.
I'm interested to know what is peak Fossie, what is his best achievement as a coach?
Some good stuff on Wikipedia about two of the candidates here.
Foster is widely touted as the greatest New Zealand rugby player to never have played for the All Blacks.
Scott Robertson (born 21 August 1974) is a New Zealand rugby union coach, former player and professional breakdancer.
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Where was this hypothetical market posted?
I'd be piling into Schmidt and Gatland at those prices.
Lay Fossie till your nose bleeds at evens.
I'm interested to know what is peak Fossie, what is his best achievement as a coach?
Some good stuff on Wikipedia about two of the candidates here.
Foster is widely touted as the greatest New Zealand rugby player to never have played for the All Blacks.
Scott Robertson (born 21 August 1974) is a New Zealand rugby union coach, former player and professional breakdancer.
@infidel on TABs FB page...
Peak Fossie was latching onto Hansens coat tails
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Old Woodward chucks in his 2p worth...headline a little mis-leading
Steve Hansen's decision to quit All Blacks labelled 'weak'
Author NZ Herald, SectionRugby, Publish Date Wednesday, 19 December 2018, 7:49PM
Former England coach Sir Clive Woodward has called Steve Hansen's decision to quit "weak". (Photo / Getty)
Former England coach Sir Clive Woodward has called Steve Hansen's decision to quit "weak". (Photo / Getty)
Former England coach Sir Clive Woodward has called Steve Hansen's decision to quit after next year's tournament in Japan "weak".Woodward, who led England to World Cup glory in 2003, wrote in a column for the Daily Mail that the 2019 World Cup has become "a retirement party for many coaches of the leading contenders", and says it was a huge mistake which could hand Eddie Jones and England the advantage heading into the tournament.
"The All Blacks always seem to make smart decisions on and off the pitch, so I am genuinely surprised by them," Woodward wrote in the Daily Mail.
"Having zero distractions is key and this is a major distraction for the coach, team and country. Players will wonder and continually be asked: "Who is going to be in charge next?"
"I want coaches saying: "I love this job, if you don't want me, fire me". If you're considering stepping down, leave any announcements until after the tournament.
"I want total focus on winning the World Cup, moving on if successful and creating a dynasty.
"I signed a four-year contract in 2003 before we went to Australia simply because I wanted no distractions. It totally focused my mind.
"We now have a bunch of top coaches thinking about their next role. It's weak. England must not get involved in this coaching sideshow, it really does give them an unexpected advantage."
Woodward, who is considered as one of the best rugby coaches in history, brought up the example of former Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson, and his initial decision to step away from the club.
"I remember when Sir Alex Ferguson announced he was retiring from Manchester United in 2001. I had always admired his career and at the time thought it was very strange, 'un-Ferguson like'," Woodward wrote.
"United crashed out of the FA Cup and League Cup early and finished third in the league — 10 points behind Arsenal.
"In early 2002 Ferguson performed a U-turn and stayed, admitting that focus was lost after his announcement.
"'A lot of players put their tools away,' he said later. 'They thought, "Oh, the manager's leaving" but when I changed my mind I started thinking about United again and how we could get back on top.'
"That quote totally reinforces my view."
Woodward finishes his column by emphasising the point that departing coaches Hansen, Rassie Erasmus, Warren Gatland and Joe Schmidt will end up being a distraction for their respective teams.
"In 2019 it will all be about Hansen, Erasmus, Gatland and Schmidt whether they like it or not. A key first test of this will be Ireland v England in the opening round of the Six Nations. If England can keep their powder dry, focus on the next game and not the next coach, I see them beating Ireland. Now that would be an amazing start to a brilliant year in Test rugby."
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Old Woodward chucks in his 2p worth...headline a little mis-leading
Steve Hansen's decision to quit All Blacks labelled 'weak'
Author NZ Herald, SectionRugby, Publish Date Wednesday, 19 December 2018, 7:49PM
Former England coach Sir Clive Woodward has called Steve Hansen's decision to quit "weak". (Photo / Getty)
Former England coach Sir Clive Woodward has called Steve Hansen's decision to quit "weak". (Photo / Getty)
Former England coach Sir Clive Woodward has called Steve Hansen's decision to quit after next year's tournament in Japan "weak".Woodward, who led England to World Cup glory in 2003, wrote in a column for the Daily Mail that the 2019 World Cup has become "a retirement party for many coaches of the leading contenders", and says it was a huge mistake which could hand Eddie Jones and England the advantage heading into the tournament.
"The All Blacks always seem to make smart decisions on and off the pitch, so I am genuinely surprised by them," Woodward wrote in the Daily Mail.
"Having zero distractions is key and this is a major distraction for the coach, team and country. Players will wonder and continually be asked: "Who is going to be in charge next?"
"I want coaches saying: "I love this job, if you don't want me, fire me". If you're considering stepping down, leave any announcements until after the tournament.
"I want total focus on winning the World Cup, moving on if successful and creating a dynasty.
"I signed a four-year contract in 2003 before we went to Australia simply because I wanted no distractions. It totally focused my mind.
"We now have a bunch of top coaches thinking about their next role. It's weak. England must not get involved in this coaching sideshow, it really does give them an unexpected advantage."
Woodward, who is considered as one of the best rugby coaches in history, brought up the example of former Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson, and his initial decision to step away from the club.
"I remember when Sir Alex Ferguson announced he was retiring from Manchester United in 2001. I had always admired his career and at the time thought it was very strange, 'un-Ferguson like'," Woodward wrote.
"United crashed out of the FA Cup and League Cup early and finished third in the league — 10 points behind Arsenal.
"In early 2002 Ferguson performed a U-turn and stayed, admitting that focus was lost after his announcement.
"'A lot of players put their tools away,' he said later. 'They thought, "Oh, the manager's leaving" but when I changed my mind I started thinking about United again and how we could get back on top.'
"That quote totally reinforces my view."
Woodward finishes his column by emphasising the point that departing coaches Hansen, Rassie Erasmus, Warren Gatland and Joe Schmidt will end up being a distraction for their respective teams.
"In 2019 it will all be about Hansen, Erasmus, Gatland and Schmidt whether they like it or not. A key first test of this will be Ireland v England in the opening round of the Six Nations. If England can keep their powder dry, focus on the next game and not the next coach, I see them beating Ireland. Now that would be an amazing start to a brilliant year in Test rugby."
@taniwharugby hah.....
"I signed a four-year contract in 2003 before we went to Australia simply because I wanted no distractions. It totally focused my mind.
Yeah and then you quit before the next world cup you cretin.
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@taniwharugby hah.....
"I signed a four-year contract in 2003 before we went to Australia simply because I wanted no distractions. It totally focused my mind.
Yeah and then you quit before the next world cup you cretin.
@bones he didnt say he wasnt weak...maybe speaking from experience
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@taniwharugby hah.....
"I signed a four-year contract in 2003 before we went to Australia simply because I wanted no distractions. It totally focused my mind.
Yeah and then you quit before the next world cup you cretin.
@bones said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@taniwharugby hah.....
"I signed a four-year contract in 2003 before we went to Australia simply because I wanted no distractions. It totally focused my mind.
Yeah and then you quit before the next world cup you cretin.
Yes but his point stands in that he didn't announce his resignation in advance and then lead the team for any length of time.
If I was going to pick holes in any part of that article it would be this, "Woodward, who is considered as one of the best rugby coaches in history". Even members of the England squad called him "The Bus" - well he weren't no coach.
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@bones said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@taniwharugby hah.....
"I signed a four-year contract in 2003 before we went to Australia simply because I wanted no distractions. It totally focused my mind.
Yeah and then you quit before the next world cup you cretin.
Yes but his point stands in that he didn't announce his resignation in advance and then lead the team for any length of time.
If I was going to pick holes in any part of that article it would be this, "Woodward, who is considered as one of the best rugby coaches in history". Even members of the England squad called him "The Bus" - well he weren't no coach.
@catogrande ok sure - but didn't we know what Henry was gonna do in 2011? Or did he stay quiet? What about other RWC winning coaches? I don't see this as something affecting this AB team - if anything I would see it as something that would inspire them further.
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@catogrande ok sure - but didn't we know what Henry was gonna do in 2011? Or did he stay quiet? What about other RWC winning coaches? I don't see this as something affecting this AB team - if anything I would see it as something that would inspire them further.
@bones said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@catogrande ok sure - but didn't we know what Henry was gonna do in 2011? Or did he stay quiet? What about other RWC winning coaches? I don't see this as something affecting this AB team - if anything I would see it as something that would inspire them further.
I'd agree. I understand Woodward's point but I don't see it as particularly significant either to the ABs or Ireland, Wales etc
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@smuts said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@canefan yes - 2011 not 2015.
I was there. Most tense rugby game I've ever seen bar none. The weight of expectation was huge, the feeling we were going to lose again was suffocating as the French came back. In the tight second half the crowd was noticeably quiet, the moment far too big for many to cheer. One of my mates hid up on the concourse because he couldn't bear to watch. To this day I have never watched the game on tv and probably never will
@canefan said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
To this day I have never watched the game on tv and probably never will
I'm with you, I watched it with Mrs Meldrew (who isn't a rugby afficionado), a bottle of whisky and a loaded revolver.
That said, I had a hunch we would win when The Duck came on. He was utterly nerveless and calmly went about his business - his best game in Black.
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@catogrande ok sure - but didn't we know what Henry was gonna do in 2011? Or did he stay quiet? What about other RWC winning coaches? I don't see this as something affecting this AB team - if anything I would see it as something that would inspire them further.
@bones said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@catogrande ok sure - but didn't we know what Henry was gonna do in 2011? Or did he stay quiet? What about other RWC winning coaches? I don't see this as something affecting this AB team - if anything I would see it as something that would inspire them further.
Henry was an open secret - win and it was the perfect way to go out, lose and the position was untenable. White was at loggerheads with SARU going into it like most Bok coaches - so most likely gone. McQueen signed an extension before RWC (only came into power on '97 EOYT).
From a NZ perspective I pulled an old Paul Verdon book The Hartbreak Years off the shelf last night (which while horrendously biased gives the best factual account of the mechanications of AB coach appointments from Lochore to Smith) and the consensus is: Hart would have stayed, Wyllie almost quit before the RWC and was gone for sure, Lochore going soon either way, Mains unknown but would have faced another contest regardless after the France tour given Hart actually had majority union support in the 1994 contest.
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The problem with Woodward's analysis is that he has zero idea of the internal culture of the ABs. Hansen, meanwhile, helped develop it and has a much better idea of how the players will deal with the situation.
Given that part of Hansen's AB culture is to emphasise the collective and not place himself at any great level of importance the players would not expect to see any major upheaval at his departure. A new head coach may bring some new ideas and a different management style but ultimately the players know that performance is linked to their own behaviour, not that of the coach. -
Sir Clive is the same guy who believed dragging Alistair Campbell onto a Lions tour was a good idea.
