Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Quite a few relatively oddball suggestions there. There's no real reason to look further at Bracewell or at Rutherford, in the context of the current squad and returning players. As for not taking two spinners, you may have a case but I'd take two.
Can only really go on scorecards but Braces was in the squad and Rutherford was selected in the A squad against India and has kept ticking over since then - so both surely are in the frame. Rutherford isn't contracted though.
Re covering for a middle order injury, that's easy in this squad. You have five batsmen anyway as three are six in my squad and they can be juggled due to the flexibility provided by Latham and Munro, then there are 2-3 all rounders (if you include Santner as one) and a batting back up 'keeper in Seifert.
I may be looking for a guy that doesn't exist, but I'd want another batsman who has a bit more versatility and can play the middle innings and/or begin the acceleration around the 40th over if required. Munro happens to open - but I'd class him as more of a dasher with one gear and needs to either open or close the innings. If we lose Taylor or Williamson - aside from being fucked - Nicholls obviously slides up but we would need another bat at 5 who is able to come in anywhere after the 15th over at 3 down and play us back into the game.
The temptation is to say de Grandhomme who does have the talent and application to bat 25 overs in an ODI against quality bowling ticking over the strike. But like Elliott (I know...) or Harris if he bats 25 overs you have merely saved faced and almost certainly not scored enough runs.
The situation is virtually the same as last CWC. When it comes to the finals the only obvious path to victory on a low scoring pitch Boult and Southee outbowling the opposition and in high scoring games Guppy, Kane or Taylor need a century or we will lose.
@rotated I was wondering just the other day about Baz, mainly in the context of it being unfortunate timing that we don't have him at his peak right now, to go with Guppy, Kane, Rossco, Trent et al. Seems he smacked 56 last night, but otherwise his form hasn't been good enough.
I think that if we lost a middle order player then Latham would bat at 5.
I think we need to use Munro as an opener and just hope for the best - for me, Tom Latham just doesn't generate the necessary strike rate and that puts too much reliance on Guppy (initially) to hit out. I think Latham plays, because he's the best keeper - but he floats in the order - batting six if we lose early wickets - dropping down if we need more firepower.
Munro
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham
Neesham
Santner
Southee
Ferguson
BoultPlus: Sodhi, Seifert, de Grandhomme and probably Henry, but maybe yet another spinner (if we're mainly going to play two specialist spinners, as was suggested as a possibility by Hesson).
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Latham is actually the incumbent 5 and Nicholls was just moved up while he took a rest for the last series.
I would say it will remain that way as Nicholls looks to have more ability than Latham to hit from ball one.
@LABCAT said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Latham is actually the incumbent 5 and Nicholls was just moved up while he took a rest for the last series.
I would say it will remain that way as Nicholls looks to have more ability than Latham to hit from ball one.
Holy cow, it almost sounds like we have, dare I say it, depth :face_screaming_in_fear:
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Latham is actually the incumbent 5 and Nicholls was just moved up while he took a rest for the last series.
I would say it will remain that way as Nicholls looks to have more ability than Latham to hit from ball one.
@LABCAT Right on both counts, I think.
In fact, Tom could float significantly more than I've outlined above. If, like yesterday, we lose two early wickets, he could potentially bat at four (or even three) to provide more protection for Rossco (and/or Kane).
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This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300, so why do we need to open the innings with a liability on the off-chance he'll have an 'on' day and score a quick 50?
Plus, dare I say it, but look at Munro's best ODI innings and tell me he isn't an archetypal flat track bully. Of his 7 fifties, they've come at run paradises Potchefstroom, Kanpur, Christchurch, Hamilton and the Mount, plus another against Bangladesh. The other one was in Wellington, not sure which ground but a NZ total of 317 suggests it wasn't a difficult track.
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This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300, so why do we need to open the innings with a liability on the off-chance he'll have an 'on' day and score a quick 50?
Plus, dare I say it, but look at Munro's best ODI innings and tell me he isn't an archetypal flat track bully. Of his 7 fifties, they've come at run paradises Potchefstroom, Kanpur, Christchurch, Hamilton and the Mount, plus another against Bangladesh. The other one was in Wellington, not sure which ground but a NZ total of 317 suggests it wasn't a difficult track.
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300.
You'd need to look at actual first 30 ball performance for this to make sense. I would expect that both Latham and Guptill score well below their average strike rate (although to a lesser extent with Guptill) early in their innings.
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300.
You'd need to look at actual first 30 ball performance for this to make sense. I would expect that both Latham and Guptill score well below their average strike rate (although to a lesser extent with Guptill) early in their innings.
@Cyclops said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300.
You'd need to look at actual first 30 ball performance for this to make sense. I would expect that both Latham and Guptill score well below their average strike rate (although to a lesser extent with Guptill) early in their innings.
Yep, fair call. Still not a solid argument for Munro though.
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This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300, so why do we need to open the innings with a liability on the off-chance he'll have an 'on' day and score a quick 50?
Plus, dare I say it, but look at Munro's best ODI innings and tell me he isn't an archetypal flat track bully. Of his 7 fifties, they've come at run paradises Potchefstroom, Kanpur, Christchurch, Hamilton and the Mount, plus another against Bangladesh. The other one was in Wellington, not sure which ground but a NZ total of 317 suggests it wasn't a difficult track.
@shark Also need to take into account that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
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@shark Also need to take into account that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
Some might even call that a disgrace.
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@shark Also need to take into account that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark Also need to take into account, that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
Fuel to the fire. Good team, even on good batting decks, and Munro can't score.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark Also need to take into account, that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
Fuel to the fire. Good team, even on good batting decks, and Munro can't score.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
Some might even call that a disgrace.
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@SynicBast play the ball not the man. This is a discussion forum
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@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
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I think CDG is a lock based on selector comments before the SL series - they were looking for his backup, not his replacement. Neesham is obviously the front runner for that currently, but that's as the second all-rounder, not the first one. The squad in the OP is about where we're at currently, so this is how I'd pick it:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonReserves
Neesham
Seifert (wk)
Sodhi
HenryIf someone could name a better opener to replace Munro, great, but we've probably left our run too late. If we want another middle order batsman, Worker seems fine.
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I think CDG is a lock based on selector comments before the SL series - they were looking for his backup, not his replacement. Neesham is obviously the front runner for that currently, but that's as the second all-rounder, not the first one. The squad in the OP is about where we're at currently, so this is how I'd pick it:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonReserves
Neesham
Seifert (wk)
Sodhi
HenryIf someone could name a better opener to replace Munro, great, but we've probably left our run too late. If we want another middle order batsman, Worker seems fine.
@Godder said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
I think CDG is a lock based on selector comments before the SL series - they were looking for his backup, not his replacement. Neesham is obviously the front runner for that currently, but that's as the second all-rounder, not the first one. The squad in the OP is about where we're at currently, so this is how I'd pick it:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonReserves
Neesham
Seifert (wk)
Sodhi
HenryIf someone could name a better opener to replace Munro, great, but we've probably left our run too late. If we want another middle order batsman, Worker seems fine.
I am kind of liking this team. It it tempting to drop Munro/Nicholls and have Latham open or bat at 5 while picking two all rounders. You could do that. The only thing is if Neesham doesn't bowl well then de Grandhomme probably won't either. In a lot of ways it makes sense to pick just one of them.
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@SynicBast said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
I played the argument, such as it was.
In completely different thread? Ok
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
I think that is the selectors hope - if he can average above ~33 with a plus 100 strike rate that is valuable as it means Guppy/Kane/Rosco can play themselves in without worrying about generating a run rate early. I don't mind it, he's got a great eye and if he comes off we set ourselves up for a massive score.
