Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad
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Latham is actually the incumbent 5 and Nicholls was just moved up while he took a rest for the last series.
I would say it will remain that way as Nicholls looks to have more ability than Latham to hit from ball one.
@LABCAT Right on both counts, I think.
In fact, Tom could float significantly more than I've outlined above. If, like yesterday, we lose two early wickets, he could potentially bat at four (or even three) to provide more protection for Rossco (and/or Kane).
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This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300, so why do we need to open the innings with a liability on the off-chance he'll have an 'on' day and score a quick 50?
Plus, dare I say it, but look at Munro's best ODI innings and tell me he isn't an archetypal flat track bully. Of his 7 fifties, they've come at run paradises Potchefstroom, Kanpur, Christchurch, Hamilton and the Mount, plus another against Bangladesh. The other one was in Wellington, not sure which ground but a NZ total of 317 suggests it wasn't a difficult track.
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This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300, so why do we need to open the innings with a liability on the off-chance he'll have an 'on' day and score a quick 50?
Plus, dare I say it, but look at Munro's best ODI innings and tell me he isn't an archetypal flat track bully. Of his 7 fifties, they've come at run paradises Potchefstroom, Kanpur, Christchurch, Hamilton and the Mount, plus another against Bangladesh. The other one was in Wellington, not sure which ground but a NZ total of 317 suggests it wasn't a difficult track.
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300.
You'd need to look at actual first 30 ball performance for this to make sense. I would expect that both Latham and Guptill score well below their average strike rate (although to a lesser extent with Guptill) early in their innings.
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300.
You'd need to look at actual first 30 ball performance for this to make sense. I would expect that both Latham and Guptill score well below their average strike rate (although to a lesser extent with Guptill) early in their innings.
@Cyclops said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300.
You'd need to look at actual first 30 ball performance for this to make sense. I would expect that both Latham and Guptill score well below their average strike rate (although to a lesser extent with Guptill) early in their innings.
Yep, fair call. Still not a solid argument for Munro though.
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This whole generating SR to take pressure off Guppy thing while not irrelevent, isn't really a case to carry on with Munro either.
Munro's SR is 106.69 with an average of 26 and that means he faces 25 balls for 26 runs on average. That's not much. Only 7 times in 42 innings has he passed 50. So 16% of the time he contributes to a signficant fast start and takes the pressure off Guppy to score quickly. Fuck all.
Latham's SR is 82.38. Averaging 33, that means he faces around 39-40 balls on average per innings. Guptills is 86.60. If they bat through ten overs (60 balls) together we'll be around 55/0. 5.5 an over is where you want to be with wickets in hand with 15 overs to go in order to launch and go past 300, so why do we need to open the innings with a liability on the off-chance he'll have an 'on' day and score a quick 50?
Plus, dare I say it, but look at Munro's best ODI innings and tell me he isn't an archetypal flat track bully. Of his 7 fifties, they've come at run paradises Potchefstroom, Kanpur, Christchurch, Hamilton and the Mount, plus another against Bangladesh. The other one was in Wellington, not sure which ground but a NZ total of 317 suggests it wasn't a difficult track.
@shark Also need to take into account that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
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@shark Also need to take into account that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
Some might even call that a disgrace.
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@shark Also need to take into account that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark Also need to take into account, that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
Fuel to the fire. Good team, even on good batting decks, and Munro can't score.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark Also need to take into account, that only half of his ODI innings have been as an opener.
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
Fuel to the fire. Good team, even on good batting decks, and Munro can't score.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
He had a terrible series against England - 56 runs in 5 innings @11 - but otherwise he's not been awful. Sawn-off by Rossco's running in his best innings!
Some might even call that a disgrace.
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@SynicBast play the ball not the man. This is a discussion forum
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@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
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I think CDG is a lock based on selector comments before the SL series - they were looking for his backup, not his replacement. Neesham is obviously the front runner for that currently, but that's as the second all-rounder, not the first one. The squad in the OP is about where we're at currently, so this is how I'd pick it:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonReserves
Neesham
Seifert (wk)
Sodhi
HenryIf someone could name a better opener to replace Munro, great, but we've probably left our run too late. If we want another middle order batsman, Worker seems fine.
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I think CDG is a lock based on selector comments before the SL series - they were looking for his backup, not his replacement. Neesham is obviously the front runner for that currently, but that's as the second all-rounder, not the first one. The squad in the OP is about where we're at currently, so this is how I'd pick it:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonReserves
Neesham
Seifert (wk)
Sodhi
HenryIf someone could name a better opener to replace Munro, great, but we've probably left our run too late. If we want another middle order batsman, Worker seems fine.
@Godder said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
I think CDG is a lock based on selector comments before the SL series - they were looking for his backup, not his replacement. Neesham is obviously the front runner for that currently, but that's as the second all-rounder, not the first one. The squad in the OP is about where we're at currently, so this is how I'd pick it:
First XI
Guptill
Munro
Williamson (capt)
Taylor
Nicholls
Latham (wk, vc)
de Grandhomme
Santner
Southee
Boult
FergusonReserves
Neesham
Seifert (wk)
Sodhi
HenryIf someone could name a better opener to replace Munro, great, but we've probably left our run too late. If we want another middle order batsman, Worker seems fine.
I am kind of liking this team. It it tempting to drop Munro/Nicholls and have Latham open or bat at 5 while picking two all rounders. You could do that. The only thing is if Neesham doesn't bowl well then de Grandhomme probably won't either. In a lot of ways it makes sense to pick just one of them.
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@SynicBast said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
I played the argument, such as it was.
In completely different thread? Ok
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
I think that is the selectors hope - if he can average above ~33 with a plus 100 strike rate that is valuable as it means Guppy/Kane/Rosco can play themselves in without worrying about generating a run rate early. I don't mind it, he's got a great eye and if he comes off we set ourselves up for a massive score.
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@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
@shark One more thing to take into account is that Munro has a good T20 record.
Opening in T20s he averages 48, with two hundreds and five 50s.
Quite irrelevant to a discussion re his ODI credentials when the ODI sample size stands up on its own, don't you think?
Not in the slightest.
If you can score a century in T20 you can score a century in ODIs - except in ODIs there's more balls for Rossco to run you out!
This reminds me of some shit meme that was going round back in 2015 about the dangers of running with Ross Taylor and Scissors.....
The fact I'm really pissed when typing this and listening to Toto ( they just landed in NZ ) is irrelevant.
It's still dangerous.
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Munro has had 46 games. 46 games. And only managed 7 scores over 50 and just the one over 75 just the other day. Surely if he was any good in this format and was going to make a big score he would have by now. And if he was to get a hundred soon I'd have to initially put it down to a fluke, unless he manages a couple in quick succession. But more likely he'll fail against India and serious questions will have to be asked about other options. He's been picked consistently now for a couple of seasons and needs to repay the faith, pronto.
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Munro has had 46 games. 46 games. And only managed 7 scores over 50 and just the one over 75 just the other day. Surely if he was any good in this format and was going to make a big score he would have by now. And if he was to get a hundred soon I'd have to initially put it down to a fluke, unless he manages a couple in quick succession. But more likely he'll fail against India and serious questions will have to be asked about other options. He's been picked consistently now for a couple of seasons and needs to repay the faith, pronto.
@shark said in Black Caps 2019 Cricket World Cup Squad:
Munro has had 46 games. 46 games. And only managed 7 scores over 50 and just the one over 75 just the other day. Surely if he was any good in this format and was going to make a big score he would have by now. And if he was to get a hundred soon I'd have to initially put it down to a fluke, unless he manages a couple in quick succession. But more likely he'll fail against India and serious questions will have to be asked about other options. He's been picked consistently now for a couple of seasons and needs to repay the faith, pronto.
I'm not sure if I follow your argument against Munro. For me his selection is a two step idea.
- Do you fundamentally agree that best strategy, given our resources, having a dasher/slogger opening with Guppy?
- If yes, is Munro the best option for that role?
For the role Munro is expected to play judging him on 50s or 100s is the wrong yardstick. I would love an opener who we could judge by that yardstick btw - but then he would be playing a different role. We are expecting Munro to be a Kalu not a Jayasuria, a Greatbatch not a Wright.
The career average of 26 off 25 balls you pointed out is obviously not good enough for the role IMO. But that is his career and I would happily take an average of ~35 off 25 if he can produce that.
