2019 under 20's

[98blueandgold]

@rapido Cld be the case but I have a suspicion the rules were different and changed just after that for 20s and NZSS. I know Waisake was adopted but the way irb/nzrfu do paper work around adoptions has changed lately, possible due to increase in use of this

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Spoiler Text

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as way of eligibility?

[Nepia]

So maybe Fakatava's omission was due to him being in the Highlanders?

[Stargazer]

@nepia Yep, could be, but they had this list in the team announcement and his name isn't in it:

Players unavailable for selection due to Super Rugby and Sevens committments: Etene Nanai-Seturo (Counties Manukau), Kaleb Trask (Bay of Plenty), Leicester Faingaanuku ( Ta$man), Billy Proctor (Wellington), Caleb Clarke (Auckland), Scott Gregory (Northland) and Jeriah Mua (Bay of Plenty).

[Nepia]

@stargazer Yeah I know, maybe he was just an oversight missed from that list?

[Bovidae]

I think it's good if players aren't rushed and have a chance to develop via NPC and the U20s. It makes the latter team stronger too.

[taniwharugby]

Derren Whitcombe has been named assistant coach of U20s

[98blueandgold]

After watching game with a lot of u20 prospects thought it would be good to get a new topic going.

Players at Crusaders vs Hurricanes D on show.

Tamati Williams - Started and was part of a very strong scrum/Lineout unit. Didnt see in tight but should be part of team.
Cullen Grace - Was starting and has got a lot bigger since school. Very physical and showed he is up to the level. Impressed
Dallas McLeod - As mentioned in other post was the most impressive player on the park incl. ABs!! Big kid and very strong but may not have express pace. One to watch!
Leicester Faingaanuku - Was the player they wanted to get the ball. Big Kid who looked to have x-factor
Shilo Klein - Didnt really show out at this level
Fletcher Newell- played tough up front, good technically
Fergus Burke - Composed and good kicker, will be in mix
Sam Gilbert - Like Burke could be in mix.
Chay Fihaki - Athletic kid who looked to mix it with the big boys. is a prospect
Isaiah Punivai - I know they like him, and he is good but some others shone brighter today.
Kaliopasi Uluilakepa - Monster in loose but at times Hurricanes struggled as a pack. Will be in team!
Stewart Cruden- started but general kicking was very weak today.
Danny Toala - Had moments on attack but was destroyed by McLeod on D. was not up to standard defensively.
Billy Proctor -Inj early
Josiah Tavita Metcalfe - Came on and made impact, ran strongly and earned scrum penalty in game.
Devan Flanders - Looks about 30 but when he came on just has something about him that I like. Does little things well.
Kienan Higgins - Big kid as well, didnt realise he is u20. took on the line a couple of times. physical.

[chchfanatic]

@98blueandgold how was frost today. He played well in internal trial. Fletcher Newell was good too

[98blueandgold]

I didnt get a good look as lots of the reserves for Crusaders came on at the end. Big dude though! Most of the reserves had same numbers as starters which also confused things, lots of similar looking whites guys

[Stargazer]

Geez, the NZ U20s will have to deal with this giant again, if they make it past the pool stage; such a big lad and only 18. Poor Ihaia, ragdolled by an 18-year-old.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsRugby/status/1101875783612678144

[Stargazer]

List of players selected for the final NZ U20 trial in Palmerston North next week:

Forwards:
Iona Apineru - Wellington
Kaylum Boshier - Taranaki
Rob Cobb - Auckland
Sam Cooper - Waikato
Sam Dickson - Otago
George Dyer - Waikato
Tovo Lesinali Faleafa - Auckland
Samipeni Finau - Waikato
Devan Flanders - Hawke's Bay
Cullen Grace - Canterbury
Kohan Herbert - Bay of Plenty
Josh Hill - Otago
Shamus Hurley Langton - Wellington
Kianu Kereru Symes - Hawke's Bay
Shilo Klein - Canterbury
Michael Loft - Taranaki
Isileli Manu - Auckland
Fletcher Newell - Canterbury
Ollie Norris - Waikato
Taine Plumtree - Wellington
Kershawl Sykes Martin - Ta$man
James Thompson - Waikato
Kaliopasi Uluilakepa - Wellington
Tupou Vaa'i - Taranaki
Tamaiti Williams - Canterbury
Matt Graham Williams - Ta$man

Backs:
Fergus Burke - Canterbury
Leroy Carter - Bay of Plenty
Luke Donaldson - Canterbury
Chay Fihaki - Canterbury
Cole Forbes - Bay of Plenty
Taufa Funaki - Auckland
Connor Garden Bachop - Wellington
Sam Gilbert - Canterbury
Awatere Kiwara - Manawatu
Lalomilo Lalomilo - Bay of Plenty
Lincoln McClutchie - Hawke's Bay
Dallas McLeod - Canterbury
Brad McNaughten - North Harbour
Emoni Narawa - Bay of Plenty
Isaiah Punivai - Canterbury
Rivez Reihana - Waikato
Dennon Robinson Barlett - Bay of Plenty
Zarn Sullivan - Auckland
Danny Toala - Hawke's Bay
Quinn Tupaea - Waikato
Reuben Va’a - Wellington

*An additional eight tight forwards will attend the set piece camp, of which three will be invited to stay on for the trial.

Players not considered due to injury
Jeriah Mua (Bay of Plenty), Kaleb Trask (Bay of Plenty), Finlay Brewis (Canterbury), Sam Darry (Canterbury), Jack Heighton (North Harbour), Simon Parker (Waikato), Naitoa Ah Kuoi (Wellington), Callum Harkin (Wellington)

Players unavailable due to Super Rugby and Sevens commitments
Caleb Clarke (Blues), Etene Nanai Seturo (Chiefs), Billy Proctor (Hurricanes), Leicester Faingaanuku (Crusaders), Scott Gregory (All Blacks Sevens)

New Zealand Under 20 Coach Craig Philpott said players have been working on individual programmes since their last assembly in December and they are eager to see progress.  

“We know a number of these players have been playing for their Super Clubs in Under 20 and Development teams so we expect to hit the ground running next week.” 

The trial camp includes position specific coaching in the lead up to two trial matches against the Hurricanes and Chiefs Development teams. 

The New Zealand Under 20 team will compete at the Oceania Championships before heading to Argentina in June for the U20 World Championships.  

World Rugby announced the draw for the tournament last week, New Zealand tasked with a tough pool assignment coming up against South Africa, Scotland and Georgia with an eye on qualifying for the play offs. 

http://www.allblacks.com/News/33796/under-20-hopefuls-preparing-for-final-trial

[Stargazer]

It's weird that they list Jeriah Mua as injured, considering he played for Chiefs U20 last weekend. Unless he re-injured himself, but he looked okay on photos that I've seen.

And why isn't Folau Fakatava on any of the lists? Again! I could understand it if Tonga was competing at the JWC, but that's not the case.

[Stargazer]

I compared this latest list to that for the first camp.

Players invited for the first camp, but not for this final camp:

• Tane Te Aho - Wellington (hooker)
• Jack Gray - Auckland (fullback)
• Iosefa Maloney-Fiaola - Bay of Plenty (lock?)
• Josiah Tavita-Metcalfe - Hawkes Bay (prop)

.
Named on the last list but not on the first:

• Matt Graham Williams - Ta$man
• Josh Hill - Otago
• Isileli Manu - Auckland
• Kershawl Sykes Martin - Ta$man
• Emoni Narawa - Bay of Plenty
• Zarn Sullivan - Auckland
• Sam Darry (injured) - Canterbury

[Nepia]

@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:

And why isn't Folau Fakatava on any of the lists? Again! I could understand it if Tonga was competing at the JWC, but that's not the case.

I assume he isn't eligible yet so they're not selecting him? Or does it not matter at U20s level?

[antipodean]

@Nepia I thought it didn't matter because they're not locked in?

[Nepia]

@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:

@Nepia I thought it didn't matter because they're not locked in?

If that's the case then it's bonkers he didn't appear anywhere on that page.

[Stargazer]

@antipodean It's not eligibility in terms of being locked in by another country; it's about eligibility under the residency rules and at which point in time the residency period starts to run.

@Nepia I suspect that he's indeed not eligible.
I remember looking up in the WR regulations when the residency requirement starts to run, and I couldn't find anything. Someone on the Fern said it starts from the moment he finished school, if he has not moved here with his family but came here by himself.

If that's correct, the question is, has he moved to NZ with his family or by himself (to go to school here)? If he came with his family, how long ago was that? I don't know the answers to these questions.

Edit: just found this in a article in the HBT from 2017:

"I'm really excited to sign with the Magpies. It means I will be able to help support my family because they all work so hard," he said, referring to his father and two sisters in Tonga and mother and two brothers in Australia.

[antipodean]

@Stargazer My understanding is regulation 8 doesn't apply if the U20s team isn't the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team. Has this changed?

[Stargazer]

@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:

@Stargazer My understanding is regulation 8 doesn't apply if the U20s team isn't the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team. Has this changed?

That part of Regulation 8 is about players being locked in by playing for a particular country. That has nothing to do with the eligibility of players who were born in another country (residency requirement, now 5 years, but still 3 years when Fakatava moved to NZ). Fakatava was born in Tonga. See also the edit of my previous post. Both his parents are not living in NZ, so if what has been posted on the Fern before is correct, his residency period started to run from the moment he left school (end of 2017).

The rule relating to being locked in by an U20s team has indeed changed. You cannot be locked in by playing for an U20 team. full stop. That's because an U20 team can no longer be the designated "next senior fifteen-a-side national representative team".

[antipodean]

@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:

@antipodean said in 2019 under 20's:

@Stargazer My understanding is regulation 8 doesn't apply if the U20s team isn't the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team. Has this changed?

Regulation 8 is about players being locked in by playing for a particular country. That has nothing to do with the eligibility of players who were born in another country (residency requirement, now 5 years, but presumably still 3 years when Fakatava moved to NZ). Fakatava was born in Tonga. See also the edit of my previous post. Both his parents are not living in NZ, so if what has been posted on the Fern before is correct, his residency period started to run from the moment he left school (end of 2017).

The rule relating to being locked in by an U20s team has indeed changed. You cannot be locked in by playing for an U20 team. full stop. That's because an U20 team can no longer be the designated "next senior fifteen-a-side national representative team".

So where is it written about a residency requirement to play U20s?

This is Regulation 8 available on World Rugby website: https://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resources/WorldRugbyDIR/Handbook/English/pubData/source/files/Regulation8.pdf

8.3 For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if:

(d) He is selected to represent the Under 20s National Representative Team of a Union which has been pre-designated as that Union’s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the Player is part of the team which participates in an International Match as part of the World Rugby Junior World Championships, World Rugby Junior World Rugby Trophy or the Six Nations U20
Championship and is present at the Match played by that Team either as a replacement, substitute or playing member of that Team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority.