Super Rugby News
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@Crucial Are you suggesting that ref appointments are influenced by how teams are ranked?
Yeah, I think they are (to an extent). There are probably a number of factors such as availability, location, the 'team of four' etc but certainly they would avoid putting a rookie in charge of a high interest game.
@Crucial I haven't seen any evidence of that during the first rounds.
This is from SANZAAR's website:
Following a comprehensive review of match official performances in 2018 and to ensure continued growth in the referee team performance, the team has been reduced from 17 to 15 referees. Another outcome from the review will see all match referees, assistant referees and television match official appointments being made by SANZAAR. When required, due to logistical and operational requirements, SANZAAR will utilise match officials from outside the team of 15 that allows for the development of local talent. “The team is a well balanced mix of referees with Test and Super Rugby experience and several emerging referees who now have one or two seasons under their belt. The experience in the team comes from Jaco Peyper and Glen Jackson, who have refereed 95 and 77 matches respectively, while we also have a group around the 40-60 mark including Angus Gardner, Nick Briant, Ben O’Keeffe and Mike Fraser. Making their Super Rugby debuts this year will be AJ Jacobs and Damon Murphy,” said Super Rugby Game Manager, Lyndon Bray. “What is exciting for 2019, is that our 15 referees will be working closely in five pods of three, with each pod refereeing together on as many of their games as is practical (referee and assistant referees). This will inevitably help the efficiency of their teamwork and the way in which they can support each other, both on and off the field.”What was clear from the first rounds is that each pod officiates one or two games per weekend, but the roles are not the same in each game. So a ref in one game, will be an AR in another, and vice versa. The pod of refs that was in Argentina in week 1 is the same as the pod in week 2 and 3, and obviously that has been done to avoid travel.
For example:
week 1
Match Jaguares v Lions @ Jose Amalfitani Stadium, Buenos Aires
Date Saturday 16 February
Kick-off 18:40 local
Referee Mike Fraser
AR1 Brendon Pickerill
AR2 Rasta Rasivhenge
TMO Santiago Borsaniweek 2
Match Jaguares v Bulls @ Jose Amalfitani Stadium, Buenos Aires
Date Saturday 23 February
Kick-off 18:40 local
Referee Brendon Pickerill
AR1 Rasta Rasivhenge
AR2 Mike Fraser
TMO Santiago Borsaniweek 3
Match Jaguares v Blues @ Jose Amalfitani Stadium, Buenos Aires
Date Saturday 2 March
Kick-off 18:40 local
Referee Rasta Rasivhenge
AR1 Mike Fraser
AR2 Brendon Pickerill
TMO Santiago BorsaniAfter this game, the Jaguares will travel, so this pod will travel as well.
To use another pod as an example:
week 1
Match Chiefs v Highlanders @ FMG Stadium, Hamilton
Date Friday 15 February
Kick-off 19:35 local
Referee Glen Jackson
AR1 Federico Anselmi
AR2 Nick Briant
TMO Aaron PatersonMatch Blues v Crusaders @ Eden Park, Auckland
Date Saturday 16 February
Kick-off 19:35 local
Referee Nick Briant
AR1 Federico Anselmi
AR2 Dan Waenga
TMO Ben Skeenweek 2
Match Highlanders v Reds @ Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
Date Friday 22 February
Kick-off 19:35 local
Referee Federico Anselmi
AR1 Nick Briant
AR2 James Doleman
TMO Glenn NewmanMatch Crusaders v Hurricanes @ Christchurch Stadium, Christchurch
Date Saturday 23 February
Kick-off 19:35 local
Referee Ben O'Keeffe
AR1 Federico Anselmi
AR2 Nick Briant
TMO Glenn Newmanweek 3
Match Hurricanes v Brumbies @ Central Energy Arena, Palmerston North
Date Friday 1 March
Kick-off 19:35 local
Referee Nick Briant
AR1 Federico Anselmi
AR2 Nick Hogan
TMO Aaron PatersonMatch Chiefs v Sunwolves @ FMG Stadium, Hamilton
Date Saturday 2 March
Kick-off 19:35 local
Referee Federico Anselmi
AR1 Nick Briant
AR2 Dan Waenga
TMO Shane McDermottIn this second example, you that Anselmi and Briant are in the same pod, officiate two games - in New Zealand - per weekend together, in each of the first three rounds.. The third ref is less clear, it could be Jackson, but he officiates fewer games, probably because he's involved in officiating Six Nations (IRC). You see the same with - for example - O'Keefe and Gardner.
Referees Jacobs and van der Westhuizen have been on duty together, first in Singapore and then in Tokyo, but now the Sunwolves are travelling, so this weekend they're officiating two games in Australia.
To me, it looks all very rational - with a lot of consideration for logistics - and don't see any reason to suspect a team's ranking has anything to do with which referee is officiating their games.
By the way, Jaguares v Lions and Jaguares v Bulls can be considered "high interest games" in the South African conference. The Blues get the same pod for their match against the Jaguares.
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@Stargazer , I get all of that which is why I mentioned the 'team of 4' (didn't realise the term was now 'pod') and logistics/ location.
When these 'locals' or pod members get elevated to reffing a match you can be certain it will be when lower ranked teams are playing and not, for example, when the Crusaders play the Highlanders.Team 'ranking' will come into consideration in ref allocation at both ends of the scale.
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@Stargazer , I get all of that which is why I mentioned the 'team of 4' (didn't realise the term was now 'pod') and logistics/ location.
When these 'locals' or pod members get elevated to reffing a match you can be certain it will be when lower ranked teams are playing and not, for example, when the Crusaders play the Highlanders.Team 'ranking' will come into consideration in ref allocation at both ends of the scale.
@Crucial I seriously doubt that will play any role in the round robin, but - obviously - the best & more experienced refs will be involved in the finals. Of course, if anyone is looking for a reason to complain about a referee appointment, they can always find one. :winking_face:
Edited to add:
By the way, assuming you're right, would you really prefer that the lower ranked refs get the conference derbies, so that the more experienced refs are free to officiate the other games? -
@Crucial I seriously doubt that will play any role in the round robin, but - obviously - the best & more experienced refs will be involved in the finals. Of course, if anyone is looking for a reason to complain about a referee appointment, they can always find one. :winking_face:
Edited to add:
By the way, assuming you're right, would you really prefer that the lower ranked refs get the conference derbies, so that the more experienced refs are free to officiate the other games?@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@Crucial I seriously doubt that will play any role in the round robin, but - obviously - the best & more experienced refs will be involved in the finals. Of course, if anyone is looking for a reason to complain about a referee appointment, they can always find one. :winking_face:
Edited to add:
By the way, would you really prefer that the lower ranked refs get the conference derbies, so that the more experienced refs are free to officiate the other games?Not angling at that at all. I just think that when a low ranked team is playing another low ranked team the potential for an inexperienced ref increases. With that comes a higher risk of the ref performance influencing the match outcome. Makes it that little bit harder to climb up the ladder.
(of course high ranked teams playing low ranked ones could also be a opportunity to blood a ref but the ability difference can usually overcome the ref) -
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@Crucial I seriously doubt that will play any role in the round robin, but - obviously - the best & more experienced refs will be involved in the finals. Of course, if anyone is looking for a reason to complain about a referee appointment, they can always find one. :winking_face:
Edited to add:
By the way, would you really prefer that the lower ranked refs get the conference derbies, so that the more experienced refs are free to officiate the other games?Not angling at that at all. I just think that when a low ranked team is playing another low ranked team the potential for an inexperienced ref increases. With that comes a higher risk of the ref performance influencing the match outcome. Makes it that little bit harder to climb up the ladder.
(of course high ranked teams playing low ranked ones could also be a opportunity to blood a ref but the ability difference can usually overcome the ref)@Crucial said in Super Rugby News:
@Stargazer said in Super Rugby News:
@Crucial I seriously doubt that will play any role in the round robin, but - obviously - the best & more experienced refs will be involved in the finals. Of course, if anyone is looking for a reason to complain about a referee appointment, they can always find one. :winking_face:
Edited to add:
By the way, would you really prefer that the lower ranked refs get the conference derbies, so that the more experienced refs are free to officiate the other games?Not angling at that at all. I just think that when a low ranked team is playing another low ranked team the potential for an inexperienced ref increases. With that comes a higher risk of the ref performance influencing the match outcome. Makes it that little bit harder to climb up the ladder.
(of course high ranked teams playing low ranked ones could also be a opportunity to blood a ref but the ability difference can usually overcome the ref)How? If two lower ranked teams play each other, one will get the 4/5 points and (possibly) climb up the ladder (unless it's a draw).
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By being on the wrong end of an inexperienced ref, making it more difficult to get the points you might be 'entitled' to. It could be just a BP, it could be a complete loss.
It's quite simple. The less experienced the ref the higher the risk that he makes errors that impact the result.
I remember the Blues copping some awful reffing in SJKs reign. It was by no means the reason or excuse for their overall performance but it sure made it harder to build confidence or for the team getting frustrated as pressure comes on from all angles.
As for ref allocation, if I find time I will do some analysis on appointments compared to ranking. -
By being on the wrong end of an inexperienced ref, making it more difficult to get the points you might be 'entitled' to. It could be just a BP, it could be a complete loss.
It's quite simple. The less experienced the ref the higher the risk that he makes errors that impact the result.
I remember the Blues copping some awful reffing in SJKs reign. It was by no means the reason or excuse for their overall performance but it sure made it harder to build confidence or for the team getting frustrated as pressure comes on from all angles.
As for ref allocation, if I find time I will do some analysis on appointments compared to ranking.@Crucial said in Super Rugby News:
I remember the Blues copping some awful reffing in SJKs reign. It was by no means the reason or excuse for their overall performance but it sure made it harder to build confidence or for the team getting frustrated as pressure comes on from all angles.
Before that we got massively offside by having Ali Williams as captain. Pro Tip: yelling at a ref doesn't help
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From Yealden:
Good afternoon. So that’s the first three rounds of Super Rugby done & with it, the end of the 180 minute restriction for All Blacks, though apparently they aren’t allowed to play more than four games in a row during the season. Here’s what each NZ franchise face over their next six games:BLUES
Sunwolves at home
Highlanders at home
Stormers at home
Waratahs at home
Chiefs away
Highlanders away
Big home stand represents a chance to get back in the mix but IMO can’t afford to drop any of the home gamesCHIEFS
Crusaders away
Hurricanes at home
Bulls away
Jaguares away
Blues at home
Lions at home
Good luck with thatCRUSADERS
Chiefs at home
Highlanders away (love a southern derby)
Waratahs away
Hurricanes away
Brumbies home
Highlanders home
Those three away games in a row could be a challenge to them but they’ve look so organised & ready this season that I doubt it willHIGHLANDERS
Hurricanes away
Crusaders home
Blues away
Hurricanes home
Crusaders away
Blues home
Six straight NZ derbies ... woah! Could be the making of them too thoughHURRICANES
Highlanders home
Chiefs away
Stormers home
Crusaders home
Highlanders away
Sunwolves away
Pretty balanced draw & they looked very sharp with their ABs back in the mixHere’s the NZ conference table after three rounds & as always, your thoughts are welcome too
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From Yealden:
Good afternoon. So that’s the first three rounds of Super Rugby done & with it, the end of the 180 minute restriction for All Blacks, though apparently they aren’t allowed to play more than four games in a row during the season. Here’s what each NZ franchise face over their next six games:BLUES
Sunwolves at home
Highlanders at home
Stormers at home
Waratahs at home
Chiefs away
Highlanders away
Big home stand represents a chance to get back in the mix but IMO can’t afford to drop any of the home gamesCHIEFS
Crusaders away
Hurricanes at home
Bulls away
Jaguares away
Blues at home
Lions at home
Good luck with thatCRUSADERS
Chiefs at home
Highlanders away (love a southern derby)
Waratahs away
Hurricanes away
Brumbies home
Highlanders home
Those three away games in a row could be a challenge to them but they’ve look so organised & ready this season that I doubt it willHIGHLANDERS
Hurricanes away
Crusaders home
Blues away
Hurricanes home
Crusaders away
Blues home
Six straight NZ derbies ... woah! Could be the making of them too thoughHURRICANES
Highlanders home
Chiefs away
Stormers home
Crusaders home
Highlanders away
Sunwolves away
Pretty balanced draw & they looked very sharp with their ABs back in the mixHere’s the NZ conference table after three rounds & as always, your thoughts are welcome too
For the Blues, the Sunwolves may be tricky and the Landers (both games) will be difficult, but they should be able to beat the Stormers, Tahs and Chiefs
For the Chiefs, everything seems difficult at the moment.
For the Crusaders, both Highlanders games and the Canes away will be tough, and also the Tahs game. The Tahs always lift their game when playing the Crusaders and they'll want revenge for last year's game.
Fot the Highlanders, both Hurricanes and Crusaders games will be very tough, and depending on which Blues team turns up, the away game might be difficult too. They seem to have the most difficult 6 games ahead of them with all those derbies. Geez.
For the Hurricanes, both Highlanders games and the Crusaders game will be tough, but the rest should be okay, unless one of those other games proves to be a banana skin.
Some interesting weeks ahead!
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For the Blues, the Sunwolves may be tricky and the Landers (both games) will be difficult, but they should be able to beat the Stormers, Tahs and Chiefs
For the Chiefs, everything seems difficult at the moment.
For the Crusaders, both Highlanders games and the Canes away will be tough, and also the Tahs game. The Tahs always lift their game when playing the Crusaders and they'll want revenge for last year's game.
Fot the Highlanders, both Hurricanes and Crusaders games will be very tough, and depending on which Blues team turns up, the away game might be difficult too. They seem to have the most difficult 6 games ahead of them with all those derbies. Geez.
For the Hurricanes, both Highlanders games and the Crusaders game will be tough, but the rest should be okay, unless one of those other games proves to be a banana skin.
Some interesting weeks ahead!
@Stargazer dunno, for as good as the SW were, I think the Chiefs were poor, the Blues should account for them, but then this is still the BLues I guess.
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Only 1 team unbeaten after 3 rounds, is that some sort of record? I guess we all wanted competition and so far this year has delivered.
@chimoaus competition is only good if your team stays good too
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The Canes have signed Andries Ferreira for the rest of the 2019 SR season.
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Wallabies great Tatafu Polota-Nau is back in Australian rugby and is set to take on the Reds on Saturday night, after the veteran hooker was granted a loan deal. Polota-Nau is in his second season with traditional English heavyweights Leicester Tigers, but has struggled for game in recent months. And after Test rake Tolu Latu was suspended for six weeks, the Waratahs inquired with the English club whether they could lure Polota-Nau back home on a short-term deal. Waratahs coach Daryl Gibson confirmed to reporters in Sydney on Monday afternoon that Polota-Nau was going through the final fine print to secure the deal. “We are pleased to welcome home internationally renowned hooker and NSW Waratahs’ own Tatafu Polota-Nau, to help fill a short term need with our squad,” Gibson said. -
Also posted in the Chiefs 2019 thread:
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@Tim fucking oath! They can't come over here, beat the Chiefs and not expect any consequences!
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@Tim If it's true, it's not really surprising. Even with small improvements in performance since they joined the competition, what have they actually contributed to the development of rugby in Japan? You only have to look at the make-up of their squad - with an incredible number of non-Japanese born players - to know that that contribution can't be very significant. This is not a Japanese SR team, this is a multi-national team of SR rejects.
Going back to a SR 14 opens the door to abolishing the conference system and returning to a shorter regular season (13 matches) than currently (16 matches). Fewer games and less travel; it's good from a player welfare point of view, which should also benefit the quality of the games. The question is, what's the financial impact of such a decision on the competition. I have no idea what Japanese broadcasters/sponsors are currently contributing in that respect.
Maybe they should join the Major League Rugby in North America.
