NZ v Bangladesh Test #1
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@shark Not quite - but, if you look at the figures of the specialist spinners in the opposition, they're not pretty e.g. Mehidy 2/246.
The part timers have better figures e.g. Mahmadullah 1/3
If you bowl enough balls you'll probably eventually get a wicket. I doubt our spinners have conceded 246 runs across the three tests.
NZ pitches are a graveyard for any but the absolutely elite spinners - Warne, Murali class.
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@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@shark said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Interesting stat mentioned on the radio this morning, this test summer at home our pace attack have taken 52 Wickets. Spin bowlers 0 wickets.
How many wickets taken by opposition spinners, as this would indicate where we're at in terms of test spinning talent level?
9 wickets
6 across the 2 tests by Sri Lanka and 3 by the Bangles in this test.
Should be pointed out across the 3 tests we have only had to bat 4 times...Interesting.
All spinners this season (in NZ):
240 overs, 9 wickets, at average of 96.00Breakdown by NZ, SL , Bang:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;host=5;orderby=wickets;spanmin1=01+Dec+2018;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling -
For comparison: Seamers this season )
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@Rapido said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@shark said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Interesting stat mentioned on the radio this morning, this test summer at home our pace attack have taken 52 Wickets. Spin bowlers 0 wickets.
How many wickets taken by opposition spinners, as this would indicate where we're at in terms of test spinning talent level?
9 wickets
6 across the 2 tests by Sri Lanka and 3 by the Bangles in this test.
Should be pointed out across the 3 tests we have only had to bat 4 times...Interesting.
All spinners this season (in NZ):
240 overs, 9 wickets, at average of 96.00Breakdown by NZ, SL , Bang:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;host=5;orderby=wickets;spanmin1=01+Dec+2018;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowlingThat stat sums it up. 96 runs per wicket is hardly tearing us apart and probably speaks to longevity at the crease as opposed to being threatening.
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@shark said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Rapido said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@shark said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Interesting stat mentioned on the radio this morning, this test summer at home our pace attack have taken 52 Wickets. Spin bowlers 0 wickets.
How many wickets taken by opposition spinners, as this would indicate where we're at in terms of test spinning talent level?
9 wickets
6 across the 2 tests by Sri Lanka and 3 by the Bangles in this test.
Should be pointed out across the 3 tests we have only had to bat 4 times...Interesting.
All spinners this season (in NZ):
240 overs, 9 wickets, at average of 96.00Breakdown by NZ, SL , Bang:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;host=5;orderby=wickets;spanmin1=01+Dec+2018;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowlingThat stat sums it up. 96 runs per wicket is hardly tearing us apart and probably speaks to longevity at the crease as opposed to being threatening.
43 overs from Ajaz Patel for no wickets also a bit of an indicator of why Astle came back in. Astle the next worst (18 overs) in terms overs bowled for no return.
I think Astle needs to be given this series in full to see what he's got. He's promised in moments but never put it all together and that's possibly because of his stop start career. But a full series against a team that will be one of the easy tests will remove all those excuses and he'll only have himself to blame if he can't produce something. (If he does well in the remaining tests then he's still on probation until he proves himself in tougher circumstances, but he's bought himself time)
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@Cyclops said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@shark said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Rapido said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@shark said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Interesting stat mentioned on the radio this morning, this test summer at home our pace attack have taken 52 Wickets. Spin bowlers 0 wickets.
How many wickets taken by opposition spinners, as this would indicate where we're at in terms of test spinning talent level?
9 wickets
6 across the 2 tests by Sri Lanka and 3 by the Bangles in this test.
Should be pointed out across the 3 tests we have only had to bat 4 times...Interesting.
All spinners this season (in NZ):
240 overs, 9 wickets, at average of 96.00Breakdown by NZ, SL , Bang:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=2;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;host=5;orderby=wickets;spanmin1=01+Dec+2018;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowlingThat stat sums it up. 96 runs per wicket is hardly tearing us apart and probably speaks to longevity at the crease as opposed to being threatening.
43 overs from Ajaz Patel for no wickets also a bit of an indicator of why Astle came back in. Astle the next worst (18 overs) in terms overs bowled for no return.
I think Astle needs to be given this series in full to see what he's got. He's promised in moments but never put it all together and that's possibly because of his stop start career. But a full series against a team that will be one of the easy tests will remove all those excuses and he'll only have himself to blame if he can't produce something. (If he does well in the remaining tests then he's still on probation until he proves himself in tougher circumstances, but he's bought himself time)
Great post. To be blunt if he can't put away Bangladesh at home he needs to go. Obviously as a team the BCs annihilated them but wickets from Astle woulda made the hammering even more complete. I didn't see any of his bowling but sounds like it was particularly innocuous...
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@MN5 I was leaning that way until I thought more about the spinner stats for us an visitors. Basically sweet F all wickets taken by spinners in any team.
That points directly to our pitches just not offering anything to anyone in terms of spin. Do agree that an absolute gun spinner probably would have found a way to take wickets. But we don't have one, and neither does Sri Lanka or the Bangers going by those stats.
I'm not a big Astle fan but Ajaz had his crack and didn't show much. With our upcoming ODI focus I think giving Astle the series to build a body of work is the best way forward. Would also like to see him get a sniff with a newer ball, but with those seamer stats why would we aye!!
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To be fair we are playing teams that are used to facing spinners that
A. Are better then what we can offer
B. On pitches far more suited to spin.Net session with a local club side back home probably is a bigger challenge for these guys then facing our spin bowling stocks.
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So that should be a list of all spinners to play 5 tests and take at least 10 wickets. It shows what a genuine test class spinner can achieve and that we've never had one (Bracewell being the closest we've come).
Alternate version of this list with the 10 wicket qualifier replaced with bowled at least 75 overs.
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Which betters the historical average of NZ spin bowlers at home, which is 42.55
We don’t perform much better away tho.
41.65 in England
49.73 in India
47.57 in Australia
52.60 in the West Indies
40.85 in South Africa
39.61 in Pakistan
39.21 in the UAEOur best performing countries are
27.70 in Zimbabwe
25.94 in Bangladesh
33.91 in Sri LankaFair to say we are just generally shit with spin bowling but punch above our weight with pace
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@shark said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Are you saying on each of those nine occasions we gifted the wicket to the opposition?
Perera got Nicholls with a good one in the SL first test with the score around 500. The remainder from the SL series were slogs to cow corner and that one where Williamson had a brain explosion and spooned it to short fine leg.
Obviously being somewhat facetious, but also I wouldn't say the quality of spin from either touring side has been great.
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Yep! Could spend hours playing with it.
Also had messed up the 5 tests/75 overs list. Here is the correct version.
Basically anyone who bowled a decent number of overs in NZ has done better than ever NZ spinner ever, except Monty Panesar, who was a bit pants.
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@Chris-B said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
@Cyclops Not many overseas players on that list who weren't at least minor greats of the game.
Where are the people like Graeme Swann, Nathan Lyon, Ravi Ashwin etc? They simply don't play enough matches here.
Yeah, there a lot of guys who only ever played one series in NZ and its hard to design qualifiers that include them without letting in part timers who bowled a couple of overs a game (Sachin Tendulkar, looking at you).
One example is Anil Kumble who only played 3 tests here and averaged over 40.
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@Virgil said in NZ v Bangladesh Test #1:
Looking at our most successful spin bowler of the last 20 years, Daniel Vettori.
362 wickets @ 34.36Home he took 159 wickets @ 37.11
Away he took 203 wickets @ 32.16I'll always have a lot of love for Dan the man as much for his gutsy batting and captaincy as for his bowling. Interesting reading, so the consensus is Bracewell was better than he was ? @Cyclops are you saying we've never had a test class spinner?
