Chiefs 2019
-
At the start of the season I was thinking our forward pack looked decent enough, mid table at least, and I still think we are under-performing - which has to come down to coaching.
@mofitzy_ said in Chiefs 2019:
At the start of the season I was thinking our forward pack looked decent enough, mid table at least, and I still think we are under-performing - which has to come down to coaching.
I'm going to stay consistent here with my previous season comments around the Blues.
I don't agree with this 'dump the coach' reaction and blame throwing whenever a team looks poor. Sure there are times when coaching styles are obviously not the correct one for the personnel but Cooper has proven himself to actually be a good coach. He knows his basics well and has respect from the players.
What the Chiefs players are doing at the moment is real coach killer stuff. Cooper doesn't drop the ball, force the pass, duff the kick, stand back in the tackle.....that shit is all on the players. If all the backs played with the attitude of Nankivell the other night they would have probably won. (and I have never rated him before).
Cooper placed his trust in the squad in the selections and they haven't repayed him.
IMO they are badly missing the likes of Messam who would have ripped strips off his forwards out on the field and at halftime for letting down the tribe. Not having Cane lead from the front is also having a big effect.
I have some small confidence that with the right players back in the right places they can get some shape and results but they have made it bloody hard on themselves to get in a slump before playing the Saders and going on tour. -
@mofitzy_ said in Chiefs 2019:
Cane is definitely missed but it's the backline that has been especially flaky.
No settled centre combo and the inclusion of rookies has been a disaster in that area.
I will agree that Cooper overstretched in selecting Leger at 12 last week. I guess he felt it would reward him for standing in at 10 and doing a good job in the first game.
Bring back ALB and settle on a partner will help a lot.
For me it is the disorganisation in the forwards that is causing too much pressure on a makeshift backline. Too many guys looking like they don't trust the players either side of them or making bad decisions. It just all ends up being a bit passive. -
@mofitzy_ said in Chiefs 2019:
Cane is definitely missed but it's the backline that has been especially flaky.
No settled centre combo and the inclusion of rookies has been a disaster in that area.
I will agree that Cooper overstretched in selecting Leger at 12 last week. I guess he felt it would reward him for standing in at 10 and doing a good job in the first game.
Bring back ALB and settle on a partner will help a lot.
For me it is the disorganisation in the forwards that is causing too much pressure on a makeshift backline. Too many guys looking like they don't trust the players either side of them or making bad decisions. It just all ends up being a bit passive. -
@mofitzy_ said in Chiefs 2019:
At the start of the season I was thinking our forward pack looked decent enough, mid table at least, and I still think we are under-performing - which has to come down to coaching.
I'm going to stay consistent here with my previous season comments around the Blues.
I don't agree with this 'dump the coach' reaction and blame throwing whenever a team looks poor. Sure there are times when coaching styles are obviously not the correct one for the personnel but Cooper has proven himself to actually be a good coach. He knows his basics well and has respect from the players.
What the Chiefs players are doing at the moment is real coach killer stuff. Cooper doesn't drop the ball, force the pass, duff the kick, stand back in the tackle.....that shit is all on the players. If all the backs played with the attitude of Nankivell the other night they would have probably won. (and I have never rated him before).
Cooper placed his trust in the squad in the selections and they haven't repayed him.
IMO they are badly missing the likes of Messam who would have ripped strips off his forwards out on the field and at halftime for letting down the tribe. Not having Cane lead from the front is also having a big effect.
I have some small confidence that with the right players back in the right places they can get some shape and results but they have made it bloody hard on themselves to get in a slump before playing the Saders and going on tour.@Crucial said in Chiefs 2019:
@mofitzy_ said in Chiefs 2019:
At the start of the season I was thinking our forward pack looked decent enough, mid table at least, and I still think we are under-performing - which has to come down to coaching.
I'm going to stay consistent here with my previous season comments around the Blues.
I don't agree with this 'dump the coach' reaction and blame throwing whenever a team looks poor. Sure there are times when coaching styles are obviously not the correct one for the personnel but Cooper has proven himself to actually be a good coach. He knows his basics well and has respect from the players.
What the Chiefs players are doing at the moment is real coach killer stuff. Cooper doesn't drop the ball, force the pass, duff the kick, stand back in the tackle.....that shit is all on the players. If all the backs played with the attitude of Nankivell the other night they would have probably won. (and I have never rated him before).
Cooper placed his trust in the squad in the selections and they haven't repayed him.
IMO they are badly missing the likes of Messam who would have ripped strips off his forwards out on the field and at halftime for letting down the tribe. Not having Cane lead from the front is also having a big effect.
I have some small confidence that with the right players back in the right places they can get some shape and results but they have made it bloody hard on themselves to get in a slump before playing the Saders and going on tour.definite lack of leadership, but then you look at the team selected (available) and you can see why.
There was some shit there though that, if not the coaches fault, may mean they aren't listening. The defensive "system", watching turnovers happen, no fucking clue how to organise on attack, the fucking lineout. There was a lot wrong on the weekend that wasn't just dropping the ball in contact.
And stop kicking the fucking ball away inside the 22? The try we scored was nearly the worst thing that could have happened!!!
-
I see a lot of people bagging various players/ coaches about chiefs but I think you just have to live with the fact that this is the squad you have. Cooper, DMAC etc ain't gonna change result. Selections, well who else could they select who would change their season?
As a Highlanders supporter I am resigned to the fact that after this year we will struggle. BFA, A Smith, Naholo, Whitelock will change dynamic of team and we need to rebuild.
Maybe we have been blessed as rugby fans with depth that is a 20 year cycle??? Just need to put in perspective. I think k maybe Winning 50% would be overachieving with Chiefs squad no matter what happened.@98blueandgold said in Chiefs 2019:
I see a lot of people bagging various players/ coaches about chiefs but I think you just have to live with the fact that this is the squad you have. Cooper, DMAC etc ain't gonna change result. Selections, well who else could they select who would change their season?
That's exactly the excuses made for Foster. Exactly.
Rennie comes in, and suddenly excuses aren't needed.
What has changed, isn't the availability of players. The Chiefs had a decent season last year, so weren't going to have players avoid them (as they might the Blues).
What has changed is that Rennie's Chiefs are no longer playing, and we're getting Cooper's Chiefs. And they suck because they are his Chiefs, not because they can't play.
-
Yeah, I don't agree totally. I think that they possibly are not playing as intense as under Rennie but I just look at the squad and see no leadership and culture which would = intensity. Cane is out, Messam is out who let's be honest WAS the Chiefs heartbeat. No Kerr-Barlow, No Cruden (I know more than a year), No Ngatai no Tu'inukuafe a feel good story, Bird, Nanai-Williams, Pulu, these players represent more than on-field performance but are culture builders and encompass the identity of the squad and what it is to be a Chief. The culture of a team is everything and I think that they look like a team without an identity
-
Yeah, I don't agree totally. I think that they possibly are not playing as intense as under Rennie but I just look at the squad and see no leadership and culture which would = intensity. Cane is out, Messam is out who let's be honest WAS the Chiefs heartbeat. No Kerr-Barlow, No Cruden (I know more than a year), No Ngatai no Tu'inukuafe a feel good story, Bird, Nanai-Williams, Pulu, these players represent more than on-field performance but are culture builders and encompass the identity of the squad and what it is to be a Chief. The culture of a team is everything and I think that they look like a team without an identity
But the Chiefs didn't have that until Rennie arrived. He brought it, it didn't just arrive unbidden.
Also Cruden was not a uniting influence, brilliant though he was with ball in hand. Personally he was a bit of an arse. Rennie managed him brilliantly, but he's struggled in France.
Ngatai didn't play much. Pulu was so useless he was let go. Bird was good value, but hardly a leader.
I don't buy it. Coaches make culture, they don't just find it by luck.
-
Dan Carter is not going to Paris. The Chiefs should sign him as their First Five for the rest of the season. Shift DMac back to fullback.
@sparky said in Chiefs 2019:
Dan Carter is not going to Paris. The Chiefs should sign him as their First Five for the rest of the season. Shift DMac back to fullback.
He is back in the country - spotted in Twizel
-
But the Chiefs didn't have that until Rennie arrived. He brought it, it didn't just arrive unbidden.
Also Cruden was not a uniting influence, brilliant though he was with ball in hand. Personally he was a bit of an arse. Rennie managed him brilliantly, but he's struggled in France.
Ngatai didn't play much. Pulu was so useless he was let go. Bird was good value, but hardly a leader.
I don't buy it. Coaches make culture, they don't just find it by luck.
@Chester-Draws it's not about players being amazing on the field all the time, it's about the culture they bring. Rennie created a culture built around the players he had who have now all but gone. Cooper needs to re-build this. You look at Highlanders, they created a culture 2nd to none built around a group of players who will soon be leaving. The Crusaders bring in players who fit the culture.
The Chiefs success was built on culture and that has left the building -
@Chester-Draws it's not about players being amazing on the field all the time, it's about the culture they bring. Rennie created a culture built around the players he had who have now all but gone. Cooper needs to re-build this. You look at Highlanders, they created a culture 2nd to none built around a group of players who will soon be leaving. The Crusaders bring in players who fit the culture.
The Chiefs success was built on culture and that has left the building@98blueandgold said in Chiefs 2019:
@Chester-Draws it's not about players being amazing on the field all the time, it's about the culture they bring. Rennie created a culture built around the players he had who have now all but gone. Cooper needs to re-build this. You look at Highlanders, they created a culture 2nd to none built around a group of players who will soon be leaving. The Crusaders bring in players who fit the culture.
The Chiefs success was built on culture and that has left the buildingRennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
-
@98blueandgold said in Chiefs 2019:
@Chester-Draws it's not about players being amazing on the field all the time, it's about the culture they bring. Rennie created a culture built around the players he had who have now all but gone. Cooper needs to re-build this. You look at Highlanders, they created a culture 2nd to none built around a group of players who will soon be leaving. The Crusaders bring in players who fit the culture.
The Chiefs success was built on culture and that has left the buildingRennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
@antipodean said in Chiefs 2019:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
Actually, yes. That was one of the features of those sides - they really showed that much about defense is about attitude and culture. God, remember those days of holding out the Crusaders, inevitably due to huge work-rate from Lats, Messam, Cane? Fuck I miss those days.
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
@antipodean said in Chiefs 2019:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
well, yea. And hit rucks. And win the set piece
And niggle the fuck out of the Crusaders' All Blacks.
Those type of things
-
@antipodean said in Chiefs 2019:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
Actually, yes. That was one of the features of those sides - they really showed that much about defense is about attitude and culture. God, remember those days of holding out the Crusaders, inevitably due to huge work-rate from Lats, Messam, Cane? Fuck I miss those days.
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2019:
@antipodean said in Chiefs 2019:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
Actually, yes. That was one of the features of those sides - they really showed that much about defense is about attitude and culture. God, remember those days of holding out the Crusaders, inevitably due to huge work-rate from Lats, Messam, Cane? Fuck I miss those days.
Tanerau Latimer wants a fucking word
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2019:
@antipodean said in Chiefs 2019:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
Actually, yes. That was one of the features of those sides - they really showed that much about defense is about attitude and culture. God, remember those days of holding out the Crusaders, inevitably due to huge work-rate from Lats, Messam, Cane? Fuck I miss those days.
Tanerau Latimer wants a fucking word
-
How's your reading there? Who's first on that un-edited list?
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2019:
How's your reading there? Who's first on that un-edited list?
look, i don't read stuff, i jump straight to outrage and attack. Reading may temper that somewhat.
-
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
@antipodean said in Chiefs 2019:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2019:
Rennie also had the trait of a lot of good coaches of getting limited players to play their role for the team, and play above themselves doing it. Those title winning sides had some quality players, but they also had a lot of solid players who did the right thing for the team all the time.
Like tackle?
And catch the ball.
-
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2019:
How's your reading there? Who's first on that un-edited list?
look, i don't read stuff, i jump straight to outrage and attack. Reading may temper that somewhat.
