TRC: Pumas v All Blacks
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Ardie should be the starting 7.
It should be his jersey to lose and Cane's to win - not the other way round.
He was the incumbent (I thought Hansen said the incumbent gets to keep the jersey??) and the best Kiwi player in Super rugby this year.
His rival broke his neck last year, hasn't played nearly as well this year, takes his jersey and is made Captain!
And fuck Jordie Barrett.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
He certainly did. At one stage it seemed more common for him to drop it cold than catch it. As captain.
@antipodean said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
He certainly did. At one stage it seemed more common for him to drop it cold than catch it. As captain.
Nonsense. Hyperbole much? You're telling me it was common for him to drop the pill cold when Carter made a break and passed it to him in the clear?
But regardless, whatever McCaw may or may not have done doesn't excuse errors committed by Cane in this game.
For the record I think Canes progressing well and at a higher level than I thought he'd be at this stage. It's been an impressive comeback. But Ardie is in the form of his life and is definitely the better 7. So what to do? Can Cane do the job at 6. Nobody else has exactly staked a claim to that position.
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@antipodean said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
He certainly did. At one stage it seemed more common for him to drop it cold than catch it. As captain.
Nonsense. Hyperbole much? You're telling me it was common for him to drop the pill cold when Carter made a break and passed it to him in the clear?
But regardless, whatever McCaw may or may not have done doesn't excuse errors committed by Cane in this game.
For the record I think Canes progressing well and at a higher level than I thought he'd be at this stage. It's been an impressive comeback. But Ardie is in the form of his life and is definitely the better 7. So what to do? Can Cane do the job at 6. Nobody else has exactly staked a claim to that position.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel TBH duck what numbers they wear, cane, ardie, and read is our best lose trio. They can chop and change positions as needed
@Machpants And Todd is still there, too, if needed.
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@antipodean said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
He certainly did. At one stage it seemed more common for him to drop it cold than catch it. As captain.
Nonsense. Hyperbole much? You're telling me it was common for him to drop the pill cold when Carter made a break and passed it to him in the clear?
But regardless, whatever McCaw may or may not have done doesn't excuse errors committed by Cane in this game.
For the record I think Canes progressing well and at a higher level than I thought he'd be at this stage. It's been an impressive comeback. But Ardie is in the form of his life and is definitely the better 7. So what to do? Can Cane do the job at 6. Nobody else has exactly staked a claim to that position.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
He certainly did. At one stage it seemed more common for him to drop it cold than catch it. As captain.
Nonsense. Hyperbole much? You're telling me it was common for him to drop the pill cold when Carter made a break and passed it to him in the clear?
Congratulations on recognising exaggeration for dramatic effect to make the point. I didn't realise the argument was now about whether the exact same circumstances existed. My nieces argue like that. Their excuse is they're in primary school.
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@antipodean said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
He certainly did. At one stage it seemed more common for him to drop it cold than catch it. As captain.
Nonsense. Hyperbole much? You're telling me it was common for him to drop the pill cold when Carter made a break and passed it to him in the clear?
But regardless, whatever McCaw may or may not have done doesn't excuse errors committed by Cane in this game.
For the record I think Canes progressing well and at a higher level than I thought he'd be at this stage. It's been an impressive comeback. But Ardie is in the form of his life and is definitely the better 7. So what to do? Can Cane do the job at 6. Nobody else has exactly staked a claim to that position.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
He certainly did. At one stage it seemed more common for him to drop it cold than catch it. As captain.
Nonsense. Hyperbole much? You're telling me it was common for him to drop the pill cold when Carter made a break and passed it to him in the clear?
But regardless, whatever McCaw may or may not have done doesn't excuse errors committed by Cane in this game.
For the record I think Canes progressing well and at a higher level than I thought he'd be at this stage. It's been an impressive comeback. But Ardie is in the form of his life and is definitely the better 7. So what to do? Can Cane do the job at 6. Nobody else has exactly staked a claim to that position.
I think they need to find a way to give ardie as much game time as possible, he is in irresistible form , probably the most dynamic forward in world rugby right now.
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If this coaching team didn't have a bit in the bank I might be pretty brassed off at this team's tactics and performances in their last 4 tests.
I'd be inclined to wonder if hoping that passing and catching at speed while being 4 inches from a defender's face, is indeed the best way to win test rugby against England, Ireland and South Africa.
I'd wonder about fecking kick passes to the wing from turnover ball.
Lucky it's easy to forget the last 4 games in favour of remembering the games 4 years ago...
Not all that bloody impressed if I'm honest
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Anyone surprised with how many times they used Jacobsen in the lineout. I wonder if there was a direction from Shag to use him to see how he went, and he seemed to go fine to me. The man can tackle and he jumps in the lineout, I wonder if its worth giving him more time at 6.
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Anyone surprised with how many times they used Jacobsen in the lineout. I wonder if there was a direction from Shag to use him to see how he went, and he seemed to go fine to me. The man can tackle and he jumps in the lineout, I wonder if its worth giving him more time at 6.
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If this coaching team didn't have a bit in the bank I might be pretty brassed off at this team's tactics and performances in their last 4 tests.
I'd be inclined to wonder if hoping that passing and catching at speed while being 4 inches from a defender's face, is indeed the best way to win test rugby against England, Ireland and South Africa.
I'd wonder about fecking kick passes to the wing from turnover ball.
Lucky it's easy to forget the last 4 games in favour of remembering the games 4 years ago...
Not all that bloody impressed if I'm honest
@Siam ironically the All Blacks never look good when old mate Wayne Smith isn’t around to add the polish.
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Anyone surprised with how many times they used Jacobsen in the lineout. I wonder if there was a direction from Shag to use him to see how he went, and he seemed to go fine to me. The man can tackle and he jumps in the lineout, I wonder if its worth giving him more time at 6.
@chimoaus Tackle stats from SANZAAR website.
Fifita - 1 tackle made/1 missed.
Jacobson -9 tackles made/0 missed.
Top tacklers were -
Laumape -12/0
Savea- 12/0
Cane- 11/3
Ofa -11/1
Angus-10/1 -
Surely Fifita can now be classified as a failed experiment? He’s too loose, can’t tackle, has bad hands and gives away stupid penalties. Also, what’s happened to Frizell? He was the form 6, I thought. Jacobsen went well, though. Clearly a better option than Fifita.
You wonder what Jordie would have to do to play himself out of the squad. Best back three options are Rieko, BFA, Bridge/Ennor. I guess they need Jordie’s boot but he needs to learn to catch it before he can kick it .
Who do people think will start the Wellington test?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Yes, yes you do. Iirc you also had some bizzarre comment about his attacking skills a while back. He did not drop pill like that as captain.
He certainly did. At one stage it seemed more common for him to drop it cold than catch it. As captain.
Nonsense. Hyperbole much? You're telling me it was common for him to drop the pill cold when Carter made a break and passed it to him in the clear?
Congratulations on recognising exaggeration for dramatic effect to make the point. I didn't realise the argument was now about whether the exact same circumstances existed. My nieces argue like that. Their excuse is they're in primary school.
This post is deleted! -
Surely Fifita can now be classified as a failed experiment? He’s too loose, can’t tackle, has bad hands and gives away stupid penalties. Also, what’s happened to Frizell? He was the form 6, I thought. Jacobsen went well, though. Clearly a better option than Fifita.
You wonder what Jordie would have to do to play himself out of the squad. Best back three options are Rieko, BFA, Bridge/Ennor. I guess they need Jordie’s boot but he needs to learn to catch it before he can kick it .
Who do people think will start the Wellington test?
@MrDenmore said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
Surely Fifita can now be classified as a failed experiment? He’s too loose, can’t tackle, has bad hands and gives away stupid penalties. Also, what’s happened to Frizell? He was the form 6, I thought. Jacobsen went well, though. Clearly a better option than Fifita.
You wonder what Jordie would have to do to play himself out of the squad. Best back three options are Rieko, BFA, Bridge/Ennor. I guess they need Jordie’s boot but he needs to learn to catch it before he can kick it .
Who do people think will start the Wellington test?
Frizell wasn't in the travelling squad to Argentina because of a knee injury. I don't think it was serious, so he might be in consideration for the next test.
IMO, they should have selected David Havili instead of Jordie. Havili had a great SR season and also has a great boot. It's weird that the coaches explicitly recognised that when the squad was named, but preferred Jordie because he's "more versatile" (because he can also play on the wing ... well, he proved that, didnt he?).
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Surely Fifita can now be classified as a failed experiment? He’s too loose, can’t tackle, has bad hands and gives away stupid penalties. Also, what’s happened to Frizell? He was the form 6, I thought. Jacobsen went well, though. Clearly a better option than Fifita.
You wonder what Jordie would have to do to play himself out of the squad. Best back three options are Rieko, BFA, Bridge/Ennor. I guess they need Jordie’s boot but he needs to learn to catch it before he can kick it .
Who do people think will start the Wellington test?
@MrDenmore I’m thinking the 23 will look like this: 1. Moody 2. Coles 3. Franks 4. Rettalick 5. Whitelock 6. Cane 7. Savea 8. Read 9. Smith 10. Barrett 11. Ioane 12. Crotty 13. Goodhue 14. Bridge 15. Smith Reserves: 16. Taylor 17. Tu’ungafasi 18. Ta’avao 19. Barrett 20. Jacobsen 21. Perenara 22. Mo’unga 23. Leinert-Brown
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I watched the game this morning already knowing the result and having read the comments on here.
I don’t think Jordie was quite as bad as it is being made out on here. His errors were largely the same ones his team mates were making. However, apart from one nice kick he didn’t do much else positive.
Not the performance of someone fighting for a RWC spot. Living on his “versatility” at the moment.
Lets hope Bridge lives up to the hype he gets on here or we have a few headaches in the back 3.Surely Fifita has run out of chances now. Other alternatives need time now. For me Cane, Savea and Read has to be the number one combo unless another 6 forces their way in. You can’t tell me that combo is unbalanced but starting Fifita in Reads place is fine.
Overall the team performance, at least with the ball, looked like what we have seen the last few years. Disjointed, static and confused during any sort of phase play, slightly better on counter attack and still too many shitty attacking kicks in the name of unlocking the rush defence.
Again i think this all goes back to our obsession with the individual brilliance of BB and Dmac over the last few seasons. Putting other guys in space seems to be the 4th or 5th option after a chip kick, cross kick, attacking the line or shovelling a shit pass to a flat footed team mate who is trying to work out what you are doing.
Bring on 10. Mounga 15. BB 14. SmithPumas were pretty rubbish also.
Getting a B side, playing poorly, first game of the test season, at home, after the bulk of them have been playing super rugby together and they still didn’t really look like winning it. Maybe they DO treat these games as friendlies. -
@MrDenmore I’m thinking the 23 will look like this: 1. Moody 2. Coles 3. Franks 4. Rettalick 5. Whitelock 6. Cane 7. Savea 8. Read 9. Smith 10. Barrett 11. Ioane 12. Crotty 13. Goodhue 14. Bridge 15. Smith Reserves: 16. Taylor 17. Tu’ungafasi 18. Ta’avao 19. Barrett 20. Jacobsen 21. Perenara 22. Mo’unga 23. Leinert-Brown
@Canes4life pretty sure Hansen has ruled out a Cane/Savea 6/7
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@MrDenmore I’m thinking the 23 will look like this: 1. Moody 2. Coles 3. Franks 4. Rettalick 5. Whitelock 6. Cane 7. Savea 8. Read 9. Smith 10. Barrett 11. Ioane 12. Crotty 13. Goodhue 14. Bridge 15. Smith Reserves: 16. Taylor 17. Tu’ungafasi 18. Ta’avao 19. Barrett 20. Jacobsen 21. Perenara 22. Mo’unga 23. Leinert-Brown
@Canes4life said in TRC: Pumas v All Blacks:
@MrDenmore I’m thinking the 23 will look like this: 1. Moody 2. Coles 3. Franks 4. Rettalick 5. Whitelock 6. Cane 7. Savea 8. Read 9. Smith 10. Barrett 11. Ioane 12. Crotty 13. Goodhue 14. Bridge 15. Smith Reserves: 16. Taylor 17. Tu’ungafasi 18. Ta’avao 19. Barrett 20. Jacobsen 21. Perenara 22. Mo’unga 23. Leinert-Brown
Hansen and co. have already said that they're not considering the option of starting Cane, Savea and Read all at the same time, so I'd be surprised if they go for that backrow. If fit again, they may start Frizell at 6. If he's not fit, they may give Jacobson the start; risky, but Fifita may not have enough credit left for another start.
I also expect Taylor, as the incumbent, to start in the 2 jersey, unless they want to ease him back in, via the bench.
Crotty and Scott Barrett are still injured. I'm afraid that they'll name SBW at 12 if he's fit. I'd prefer ALB and Goodhue as the starting combo in the absence of Crotty. I'd also prefer Laumape over SBW on the bench. I keep on wondering whether guaranteed All Blacks selection is a clause in his contract, which NZR agreed to, to keep him in rugby and in NZ.
Against an opponent like SA, they might start Perenara instead of Smith. It will be interesting to see how much they trust Bridge. Enough to give him the start, or will they be tempted to move BFA to the right wing and give Jordie another chance, but at fullback? Jordie is their love-child after all.
If the coaches hadn't been so obsessed with the "Dmac is a 10" project and its successor "BB and Dmac starting combo" project, Mo'unga might have had more game time last year and, especially, a few more starts. If that had happened, this SA test would have been a good game to test him in the 10 jersey in a big game, but because he's had so little game time in black, that probably won't happen.
I'm looking forward to this next test against South Africa, with almost a first choice squad available.
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Frizell played a club rugby game on the weekend, so much for being “injured”. I’m guessing he’ll get a start at 6 this game.
