Flag
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="513999" data-time="1441603013">
<div>
<p>Rubbish. If there had been a committee of experts who selected 4 good different options the outcome would have been very different</p>
<p> </p>
<p>People instinctively know what works and doesn't work even though if they made the choice themselves it might be poor.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Take computer products (or phones or cars)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If individuals decide then a great product quickly gets market share. But in companies the standard of say computer ERP systems etc can often be crap. that happens when a committee of poorly qualified mostly non users make the decision based on just playing it safe. That is sort of the equivalent to what has happened here. A unqualified committee who haven't a clue just played it safe</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>By "a committee of experts" i am assuming you are referring back to your assertion the only people who can make a decision about the new standard by which our country will be identified are graphic designers. Which I, and many others, think is bullshit. There, i instantly don't agree with your process and think it's rubbish, flawed, and made by a bunch of people who don't appear to represent my interests. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>The graphic designers period of expertise was preparing the designs for judging, not also doing the judging for something as emotive as our national standard. </p> -
<div> </div>
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="513999" data-time="1441603013">
<div>
<p>Rubbish. If there had been a committee of experts who selected 4 good different options the outcome would have been very different</p>
<p> </p>
<p>People instinctively know what works and doesn't work even though if they made the choice themselves it might be poor.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Take computer products (or phones or cars)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If individuals decide then a great product quickly gets market share. But in companies the standard of say computer ERP systems etc can often be crap. that happens when a committee of poorly qualified mostly non users make the decision based on just playing it safe. That is sort of the equivalent to what has happened here. A unqualified committee who haven't a clue just played it safe</p>
</div>
<div> </div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p> </p>
<p>They were a panel of experts.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="513995" data-time="1441602074"><p>how naive. The 4 chosen could have been the best flags in the history of man kind, and there would still be people moaning about the process, how it's flawed, and how this other, 5th choice that hasn't been considered is far superior to anything this terrible panel has chosen (and fuck John key).</p></blockquote>
<br>
Yep the same people who have been sneering at the whole idea have suddenly decided that the red peak is the way to go . I'm not sure who the panel should have been made up of but having the head of an advertising agency who would presumably know a bit about branding and a flag expert would look to be a great start. <br><br>
To summarise the left on the flag debate - what a waste of money - Key is trying to turn nz into a brand- it's a distraction from (insert legislation or media manufactured crisis here) - hang on here's an opportunity to embarrass key,-this triangle thing is cool , time to hit Facebook and twitter and get this thing trending .<br><br>
If they are so passionate about it why were the so quiet about it till the middle do last week? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="514001" data-time="1441604018">
<div>
<p>By "a committee of experts" i am assuming you are referring back to your assertion the only people who can make a decision about the new standard by which our country will be identified are graphic designers. Which I, and many others, think is bullshit. There, i instantly don't agree with your process and think it's rubbish, flawed, and made by a bunch of people who don't appear to represent my interests. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>The graphic designers period of expertise was preparing the designs for judging, not also doing the judging for something as emotive as our national standard. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I come back to what I said above. Would you want a committee of graphic designers (who may not even be interested in rugby or sport) selecting the AB's. Disagree all you like but it's what has happened here. With a predictable outcome</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="514004" data-time="1441604348">
<div>
<p>Yep the same people who have been sneering at the whole idea have suddenly decided that the red peak is the way to go . <span style="color:#ff0000;">I'm not sure who the panel should have been made up of but having the head of an advertising agency who would presumably know a bit about branding and a flag expert would look to be a great start.</span><br><br>
To summarise the left on the flag debate - what a waste of money - Key is trying to turn nz into a brand- it's a distraction from (insert legislation or media manufactured crisis here) - hang on here's an opportunity to embarrass key,-this triangle thing is cool , time to hit Facebook and twitter and get this thing trending .<br><br>
If they are so passionate about it why were the so quiet about it till the middle do last week?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I said a committee of 6 above with half having appropriate training and proven work experience and the other half related skills. Like a flag expert and head of an adverting agency</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No inappropriate selections like an ex AB.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Its like the chairmen of NZRU might not be the best AB selector but might be on the committee ... But a graphical designer with no interest in rugby is inappropriate</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514005" data-time="1441604417">
<div>
<p>I come back to what I said above. Would you want a committee of graphic designers (who may not even be interested in rugby or sport) selecting the AB's. Disagree all you like but it's what has happened here. With a predictable outcome</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Please post this list of flag picking experts.</p>
<p>Not a list of designers and graphics artists, they are not flag picking experts.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514006" data-time="1441604658">
<div>
<p>I said a committee of 6 above with half having appropriate training and proven work experience and the other half related skills. Like a flag expert and head of an adverting agency</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No inappropriate selections like an ex AB. Its like the chairmen of NZRU might not be the best AB selector</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>There are people with flag design qualifications? Where do they offer that course? AUT? Must be a very niche position.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No matter how much you rabbit on about designers knowing best about choosing a flag, doesnt make it so.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514005" data-time="1441604417">
<div>
<p>I come back to what I said above. Would you want a committee of graphic designers (who may not even be interested in rugby or sport) selecting the AB's. Disagree all you like but it's what has happened here. With a predictable outcome</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Graphic designers are graphic designers. We aren't picking the flag that looks the best. We are picking the flag which represents us as people. How would graphic designers know that?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514005" data-time="1441604417">
<div>
<p>I come back to what I said above. Would you want a committee of graphic designers (who may not even be interested in rugby or sport) selecting the AB's. Disagree all you like but it's what has happened here. With a predictable outcome</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>you keep saying this shit like it means something. it's a shit analogy, and it's a retarded idea. No matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it right. Hydro and Baron have laid my thoughts out. that's three of us. on this page. Proving my point. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="513999" data-time="1441603013">
<div>
<p><strong>Rubbish. If there had been a committee of experts who selected 4 good different options the outcome would have been very different</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>If a committe of experts had picked a flag with a snapper and a rugby ball some woulda thought it was the best thing ever! You will never please everyone.......there you go on your qualifications/experience line again...</p> -
<p>86% say yes</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Poll: Should the Red Peak flag be included as an option in the flag referendum?<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-align:left;"><br>
Read more: <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/story/poll-should-the-red-peak-flag-be-included-as-an-option-in-the-flag-referendum-2015090714#ixzz3l20cPQrN'>http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/story/poll-should-the-red-peak-flag-be-included-as-an-option-in-the-flag-referendum-2015090714#ixzz3l20cPQrN</a></div>
<p> </p>
</blockquote> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514025" data-time="1441607176">
<div>
<p> </p>
<p>86% say yes</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I just voted 6 times....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>cool poll bro... but maybe they should have used more poll 'experts' </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="513845" data-time="1441550915">
<div>
<p>From memory, when Hunterwasser designed his flag back in the early 1980s, he (an Austrian) was careful to offer it merely as a suggestion, he didn't expect his flag to be flown, he merely wanted to inject an idea into mainstream Kiwi thought that, hey, you really should identify yourself with a signature flag, and was careful to suggest it should be designed by a Kiwi. I would prefer the design not get outsourced, it should be home-grown. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Ha, it was the Hundertwasser Art Museum I referred to earlier that went to referendum up here...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="514026" data-time="1441607647">
<div>
<p>I just voted 6 times....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>cool poll bro... but maybe they should have used more poll 'experts' </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I don't think i can trust anyone who votes on a poll who isn't a qualified market researcher! i mean, we don't let graphic designers select the All Blacks...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514006" data-time="1441604658">
<div>
<p>I said a committee of 6 above with half having appropriate training and proven work experience and the other half related skills. Like a flag expert and head of an adverting agency</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No inappropriate selections like an ex AB.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Its like the chairmen of NZRU might not be the best AB selector but might be on the committee ... But a graphical designer with no interest in rugby is inappropriate</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Why is a former ab captain and coach not appropriate? </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="514027" data-time="1441607990">
<div>
<p>Ha, it was the Hundertwasser Art Museum I referred to earlier that went to referendum up here...</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I looked at that Art Museum's plans - it looked nice. Would check out if I was up in Whangarei. Anyway, Hundertwasser who was a famous artist obviously though a koru, or a 'corporate logo' could be acceptable for a national flag. Good thing for Winger he wasn't on the panel!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="514026" data-time="1441607647">
<div>
<p>I just voted 6 times....</p>
<p> </p>
<p>cool poll bro... but maybe they should have used more poll 'experts' </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Its only a poll to include the Red Peak in the final 4 or 5</p>
<p> </p>
<p>its obvious that this should happen. Then let the public decide. If the public went for one of the other awful deigns then so be it</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="514032" data-time="1441608289">
<div>
<p>Why is a former ab captain and coach not appropriate? </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> For the reason given above</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If BJ has had some appropriate work experience then great. But I doubt it</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514034" data-time="1441608672">
<div>
<p>Its only a poll to include the Red Peak in the final 4 or 5</p>
<p> </p>
<p>its obvious that this should happen. Then let the public decide. If the public went for one of the other awful deigns then so be it</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Obvious to who? I think it is obvious it should not be included.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514035" data-time="1441608789">
<div>
<p> For the reason given above</p>
<p> </p>
<p>If BJ has had some appropriate work experience then great. But I doubt it</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Where is this flag design industry in which BJ could have gained work experience?</p>
