Flag

hydro11

Also to put some perspective into the debate around whether National voters want a change or not:
 
60% of National voters want a new flag
51% of Labour voters want a new flag
55% of Green voters want a new flag
60% of Maori want a new flag
30-44 slightly want to keep the flag, 60+ are split, 18-29 lean to a change and 45-60 vote 59% for change.

Baron Silas Greenback

Quite honestly I have no idea what the polls are trying to say. Just last night one News had a poll that quite clearly showed no appetite for a new flag, now I am hearing about other polls that show a more even split.

canefan

This is what happens when you ask people's opinion

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="514239" data-time="1441674788">I agree. What % of New Zealanders go to the mountains? Most New Zealanders don't live in Wanaka or Arthur's Pass. I like mountains but I don't feel that they represent New Zealand. New Zealand is the only country in the world that could have a silver fern on its flag.</blockquote>
I really don't get this kind of argument. Loads of NZers go to the mountains, there are more places than Wanaka or Arthur's Pass. But how does any lack of mountainous activity by NZers then relate to us what...ummm...growing ferns? Looking at ferns? Going to the ferns? The fern isn't unique to NZ either. 
Oh and I'm intrigued to hear the last post played on a triangle.

red terror

Silver fern is endemic to NZ, sacred to Maori, it's found on all three main islands, top-to-bottom, and has been employed as a symbol of NZ for over a century. It's the name of this website forum, it's relevance does not require argument.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="514298" data-time="1441693476">I really don't get this kind of argument. Loads of NZers go to the mountains, there are more places than Wanaka or Arthur's Pass. But how does any lack of mountainous activity by NZers then relate to us what...ummm...growing ferns? Looking at ferns? Going to the ferns? The fern isn't unique to NZ either. 
Oh and I'm intrigued to hear the last post played on a triangle.</blockquote>
 
I think the story of how the Maori used to send out scouts to lay a trail of silver ferns silver side up so they could find their way to the pa who's arse they wanted to kick at night by the trail of ferns is pretty cool . Reminds me of this American colonial war flags with the snake on them .

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="514299" data-time="1441693826">
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Silver fern is endemic to NZ, sacred to Maori, it's found on all three main islands, top-to-bottom, and has been employed as a symbol of NZ for over a century. It's the name of this website forum, it's relevance does not require argument.
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</blockquote>
 
 
NZ does not have to do like Canada did though
 
I much prefer SA's flag than Canada's (in fact I think Canada's flag is a bit shit in comparison).
 
But do you think NZ went a bit overboard with the fern. 3 out of 4 FFS. It mean NZers get no real choice. The vote on a new flag is a farce.
 
<img src="http://www.awepa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/SA-flag-face1.jpg" alt="SA-flag-face1.jpg">

JC

How did SA choose its new flag? Genuinely interested.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="514347" data-time="1441699792">
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How did SA choose its new flag? Genuinely interested.
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Likewise. Because they ended up with a great outcome
 
Seems a bit like NZ
 
NZ now need to go the design studio route
 
Just stop the referendum and start again. Only the red peak is close to the required standard. The final 4 are a joke
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Wikipedia
 
1994 flag
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<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_South_African_flag_unveiling.jpg'><img height="155" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/New_South_African_flag_unveiling.jpg/220px-New_South_African_flag_unveiling.jpg" width="220" alt="220px-New_South_African_flag_unveiling.j"></a>
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<div>South African Ambassador <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Schwarz' title="Harry Schwarz">Harry Schwarz</a> presenting the new flag to the president of the United States, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton' title="Bill Clinton">Bill Clinton</a>, in May 1994.</div>
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The present South African national flag was first flown on 27 April 1994. However, the flag was first commissioned as an interim flag only, and was decided upon at the very last minute, barely making it onto the nation's flagpoles in time for the election.
 
The choice of a new flag was part of the negotiation process set in motion when <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela' title="Nelson Mandela">Nelson Mandela</a> was released from prison in 1990. When a nationwide public competition was held in 1993, the National Symbols Commission received more than 7,000 designs. Six designs were drawn up and presented to the public and the Negotiating Council, but none elicited enthusiastic support. A number of design studios were contacted to submit further proposals, but they were again without success. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_South_Africa' title="Parliament of South Africa">Parliament</a> went into <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_(motion)' title="Recess (motion)">recess</a> at the end of 1993 without a suitable candidate for the new national flag.
None of the flag designs submitted by the public were supported by the committee charged to select the final design.
In February 1994, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Ramaphosa' title="Cyril Ramaphosa">Cyril Ramaphosa</a> and <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roelf_Meyer' title="Roelf Meyer">Roelf Meyer</a>, chief negotiators of the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_National_Congress' title="African National Congress">African National Congress</a> and the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_(South_Africa)' title="National Party (South Africa)">National Party</a> government of the day respectively, were given the task of resolving the flag issue. A final design was adopted on 15 March 1994, derived from a design developed by State Herald <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Brownell' title="Frederick Brownell">Frederick Brownell</a>,<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_South_Africa#cite_note-6'>[6]</a> who had also designed the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Namibia' title="Flag of Namibia">Flag of Namibia</a>. This interim flag was designed by Frederick Brownell for the 27 April elections, the nation's first fully inclusive elections, and for <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela' title="Nelson Mandela">Nelson Mandela</a>'s 10 May inauguration.
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<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pm_cricket_shots09_6058.jpg'><img height="147" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Pm_cricket_shots09_6058.jpg/220px-Pm_cricket_shots09_6058.jpg" width="220" alt="220px-Pm_cricket_shots09_6058.jpg"></a>
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<div>The flag flying at the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Cricket_Ground' title="Sydney Cricket Ground">Sydney Cricket Ground</a>.</div>
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The proclamation of the new national flag by <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_President' title="South African President">South African President</a> <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk' title="F. W. de Klerk">F. W. de Klerk</a> was only published on 20 April 1994,<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_South_Africa#cite_note-proc-7'>[7]</a> a mere seven days before the flag was to be inaugurated, sparking a frantic last-minute flurry for flag manufacturers. As stated in South Africa's post-apartheid interim constitution, the flag was to be introduced on an interim probationary period of five years, after which there would be discussion about whether or not to change the national flag in the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_South_Africa' title="Constitution of South Africa">final draft of the constitution</a>. However, the flag was eventually very well received and was included in the final draft without much debate. Although the flag originally had mixed reception,[<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed' title="Wikipedia:Citation needed">citation needed</a>] the interim version was made the final, national flag in the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_South_Africa' title="Constitution of South Africa">South African Constitution</a>.
 
</blockquote>

canefan

So we're right on track then

taniwharugby

this should please Winger...
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71854321/flag-change-rules-might-allow-legal-hearing-on-red-peak-flag'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71854321/flag-change-rules-might-allow-legal-hearing-on-red-peak-flag</a>

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="514358" data-time="1441700502">
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this should please Winger...
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71854321/flag-change-rules-might-allow-legal-hearing-on-red-peak-flag'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71854321/flag-change-rules-might-allow-legal-hearing-on-red-peak-flag</a>
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The need to start again
 
The 4 flags should be
 
-The Red Peak
-The tino rangatiratanga flag <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71655482/why-the-tino-rangatiratanga-flag-should-be-our-national-choice'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71655482/why-the-tino-rangatiratanga-flag-should-be-our-national-choice</a>
-A studio designed black white and white or black or silver silver fern option (no other colors allowed)
-One other wildcard option
 
Then 4 teams with a good budget would promote their options over 3-6 months
Then the 1st vote.
 
This would work. The process so far would seen as just an essential starting point that produced an interest to move this debate forward

Hooroo

You are so far removed from what New Zealanders want it is getting a bit funny.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="514357" data-time="1441700390">
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So we're right on track then
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 Definitely. The interest is now there to take this process forward
 
It could be great entertainment but only if Key can grasp this opportunity. And have a rethink
 
Otherwise we will vote to stick with the current flag. The current selections have already been thoroughly discredited (and rightly so)

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="514368" data-time="1441701636">
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You are so far removed from what New Zealanders want it is getting a bit funny.
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This could be one of the wildcard options.
 
<img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743770096_n.jpg?oh=11dd5e765f68330b406af5b262dc8add&oe=566E24D3&gda=1450567606_5923090a9b3e8f2ef84ba954b641b252" alt="11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743">

Hooroo

No they haven't. You're just listening to the loudest not the most popular. Everyone at my work seem to love one of the new fern flags with the red. Same with the majority of Facebook mates of whom at least half are ex military

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="514372" data-time="1441701930">
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No they haven't. You're just listening to the loudest not the most popular. Everyone at my work seem to love one of the new fern flags with the red. Same with the majority of Facebook mates of whom at least half are ex military
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They have
 
They are crap
 
<img src="https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/a3f5750f579cd4963b38c8ebaf7a111ae63b4402/0_0_2499_1500/master/2499.jpg?w=700&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=a610f39748c286f1813d58049ea975bf" alt="2499.jpg?w=700&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10">

Winger

This one look much better
 
Or change the yellow to the right blue and drop the southern cross
 
<img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743770096_n.jpg?oh=11dd5e765f68330b406af5b262dc8add&oe=566E24D3&gda=1450567606_5923090a9b3e8f2ef84ba954b641b252" alt="11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743">

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514377" data-time="1441702154">
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This one look much better
 
Or change the yellow to the right blue and drop the southern cross
 
<img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743770096_n.jpg?oh=11dd5e765f68330b406af5b262dc8add&oe=566E24D3&gda=1450567606_5923090a9b3e8f2ef84ba954b641b252" alt="11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743">
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</blockquote>
 
I'm sure that would poll highly south of the Bombay Hills.

dogmeat

Wingers like basil fawlty talking to a foreigner. If he just repeats the same message over and over,louder and louder he thinks we will "get it". 
Seriously winger you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and jeez we all know yr feelings but it is ok to have a contrary pov or even to be apathetic about the issue. 
Hectoring just makes you look lame

The Silver Fern

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