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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="514298" data-time="1441693476"><p>I really don't get this kind of argument. Loads of NZers go to the mountains, there are more places than Wanaka or Arthur's Pass. But how does any lack of mountainous activity by NZers then relate to us what...ummm...growing ferns? Looking at ferns? Going to the ferns? The fern isn't unique to NZ either. <br>
Oh and I'm intrigued to hear the last post played on a triangle.</p></blockquote>
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I think the story of how the Maori used to send out scouts to lay a trail of silver ferns silver side up so they could find their way to the pa who's arse they wanted to kick at night by the trail of ferns is pretty cool . Reminds me of this American colonial war flags with the snake on them . -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="514299" data-time="1441693826">
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<p>Silver fern is endemic to NZ, sacred to Maori, it's found on all three main islands, top-to-bottom, and has been employed as a symbol of NZ for over a century. It's the name of this website forum, it's relevance does not require argument.</p>
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<p>NZ does not have to do like Canada did though</p>
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<p>I much prefer SA's flag than Canada's (in fact I think Canada's flag is a bit shit in comparison).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But do you think NZ went a bit overboard with the fern. 3 out of 4 FFS. It mean NZers get no real choice. The vote on a new flag is a farce.</p>
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<p><img src="http://www.awepa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/SA-flag-face1.jpg" alt="SA-flag-face1.jpg"></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="514347" data-time="1441699792">
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<p>How <em>did</em> SA choose its new flag? Genuinely interested.</p>
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<p>Likewise. Because they ended up with a great outcome</p>
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<p>Seems a bit like NZ</p>
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<p>NZ now need to go the design studio route</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Just stop the referendum and start again. Only the red peak is close to the required standard. The final 4 are a joke</p>
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<p>Wikipedia</p>
<p> </p>
<p><span>1994 flag</span></p>
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<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_South_African_flag_unveiling.jpg'><img height="155" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/New_South_African_flag_unveiling.jpg/220px-New_South_African_flag_unveiling.jpg" width="220" alt="220px-New_South_African_flag_unveiling.j"></a>
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<div>South African Ambassador <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Schwarz' title="Harry Schwarz">Harry Schwarz</a> presenting the new flag to the president of the United States, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton' title="Bill Clinton">Bill Clinton</a>, in May 1994.</div>
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<p>The present South African national flag was first flown on 27 April 1994. However, the flag was first commissioned as an interim flag only, and was decided upon at the very last minute, barely making it onto the nation's flagpoles in time for the election.</p>
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<p>The choice of a new flag was part of the negotiation process set in motion when <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela' title="Nelson Mandela">Nelson Mandela</a> was released from prison in 1990. When a nationwide public competition was held in 1993,<span style="color:#ff0000;"> the National Symbols Commission received more than 7,000 designs. Six designs were drawn up and presented to the public and the Negotiating Council, but none elicited enthusiastic support.</span> A number of design studios were contacted to submit further proposals, but they were again without success. <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_South_Africa' title="Parliament of South Africa">Parliament</a> went into <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recess_(motion)' title="Recess (motion)">recess</a> at the end of 1993 without a suitable candidate for the new national flag.</p>
<p>None of the flag designs submitted by the public were supported by the committee charged to select the final design.</p>
<p>In February 1994, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Ramaphosa' title="Cyril Ramaphosa">Cyril Ramaphosa</a> and <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roelf_Meyer' title="Roelf Meyer">Roelf Meyer</a>, chief negotiators of the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_National_Congress' title="African National Congress">African National Congress</a> and the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Party_(South_Africa)' title="National Party (South Africa)">National Party</a> government of the day respectively, were given the task of resolving the flag issue. A final design was adopted on 15 March 1994, derived from a design developed by State Herald <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Brownell' title="Frederick Brownell">Frederick Brownell</a>,<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_South_Africa#cite_note-6'><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a></sup> who had also designed the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Namibia' title="Flag of Namibia">Flag of Namibia</a>. This interim flag was designed by Frederick Brownell for the 27 April elections, the nation's first fully inclusive elections, and for <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelson_Mandela' title="Nelson Mandela">Nelson Mandela</a>'s 10 May inauguration.</p>
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<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pm_cricket_shots09_6058.jpg'><img height="147" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Pm_cricket_shots09_6058.jpg/220px-Pm_cricket_shots09_6058.jpg" width="220" alt="220px-Pm_cricket_shots09_6058.jpg"></a>
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<div>The flag flying at the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Cricket_Ground' title="Sydney Cricket Ground">Sydney Cricket Ground</a>.</div>
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<p>The proclamation of the new national flag by <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_President' title="South African President">South African President</a> <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk' title="F. W. de Klerk">F. W. de Klerk</a> was only published on 20 April 1994,<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_South_Africa#cite_note-proc-7'><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a></sup> a mere seven days before the flag was to be inaugurated, sparking a frantic last-minute flurry for flag manufacturers. As stated in South Africa's post-apartheid interim constitution, the flag was to be introduced on an interim probationary period of five years, after which there would be discussion about whether or not to change the national flag in the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_South_Africa' title="Constitution of South Africa">final draft of the constitution</a>. However, the flag was eventually very well received and was included in the final draft without much debate. Although the flag originally had mixed reception,<sup>[<i><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed' title="Wikipedia:Citation needed"><span>citation needed</span></a></i>]</sup> the interim version was made the final, national flag in the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_South_Africa' title="Constitution of South Africa">South African Constitution</a>.</p>
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<p>this should please Winger...</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71854321/flag-change-rules-might-allow-legal-hearing-on-red-peak-flag'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71854321/flag-change-rules-might-allow-legal-hearing-on-red-peak-flag</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="514358" data-time="1441700502">
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<p>this should please Winger...</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71854321/flag-change-rules-might-allow-legal-hearing-on-red-peak-flag'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71854321/flag-change-rules-might-allow-legal-hearing-on-red-peak-flag</a></p>
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<p>The need to start again</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The 4 flags should be</p>
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<p>-The Red Peak</p>
<p>-The tino rangatiratanga flag <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71655482/why-the-tino-rangatiratanga-flag-should-be-our-national-choice'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71655482/why-the-tino-rangatiratanga-flag-should-be-our-national-choice</a></p>
<p>-A studio designed black white and white or black or silver silver fern option (no other colors allowed)</p>
<p>-One other wildcard option</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then 4 teams with a good budget would promote their options over 3-6 months</p>
<p>Then the 1st vote.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This would work. The process so far would seen as just an essential starting point that produced an interest to move this debate forward</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="514357" data-time="1441700390">
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<p>So we're right on track then</p>
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<p> Definitely. The interest is now there to take this process forward</p>
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<p>It could be great entertainment but only if Key can grasp this opportunity. And have a rethink</p>
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<p>Otherwise we will vote to stick with the current flag. The current selections have already been thoroughly discredited (and rightly so)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="514368" data-time="1441701636">
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<p>You are so far removed from what New Zealanders want it is getting a bit funny.</p>
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<p>This could be one of the wildcard options.</p>
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<p><img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743770096_n.jpg?oh=11dd5e765f68330b406af5b262dc8add&oe=566E24D3&gda=1450567606_5923090a9b3e8f2ef84ba954b641b252" alt="11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743"></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="514372" data-time="1441701930">
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<p>No they haven't. You're just listening to the loudest not the most popular. Everyone at my work seem to love one of the new fern flags with the red. Same with the majority of Facebook mates of whom at least half are ex military</p>
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<p>They have</p>
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<p>They are crap</p>
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<p><img src="https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/a3f5750f579cd4963b38c8ebaf7a111ae63b4402/0_0_2499_1500/master/2499.jpg?w=700&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=a610f39748c286f1813d58049ea975bf" alt="2499.jpg?w=700&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10"></p> -
<p>This one look much better</p>
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<p>Or change the yellow to the right blue and drop the southern cross</p>
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<p><img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743770096_n.jpg?oh=11dd5e765f68330b406af5b262dc8add&oe=566E24D3&gda=1450567606_5923090a9b3e8f2ef84ba954b641b252" alt="11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743"></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514377" data-time="1441702154">
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<p>This one look much better</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Or change the yellow to the right blue and drop the southern cross</p>
<p> </p>
<p><img src="https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743770096_n.jpg?oh=11dd5e765f68330b406af5b262dc8add&oe=566E24D3&gda=1450567606_5923090a9b3e8f2ef84ba954b641b252" alt="11822566_10153609934233069_8041332510743"></p>
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<p>I'm sure that would poll highly south of the Bombay Hills.</p> -
Wingers like basil fawlty talking to a foreigner. If he just repeats the same message over and over,louder and louder he thinks we will "get it". <br><br>
Seriously winger you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and jeez we all know yr feelings but it is ok to have a contrary pov or even to be apathetic about the issue. <br><br>
Hectoring just makes you look lame -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514364" data-time="1441701346">
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<p>The need to start again</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The 4 flags should be</p>
<p> </p>
<p>-The Red Peak</p>
<p>-The tino rangatiratanga flag <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71655482/why-the-tino-rangatiratanga-flag-should-be-our-national-choice'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71655482/why-the-tino-rangatiratanga-flag-should-be-our-national-choice</a></p>
<p>-A studio designed black white and white or black or silver silver fern option (no other colors allowed)</p>
<p>-One other wildcard option</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then 4 teams with a good budget would promote their options over 3-6 months</p>
<p>Then the 1st vote.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This would work. The process so far would seen as just an essential starting point that produced an interest to move this debate forward</p>
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<p>You make it sound like this is the perfect way of doing things to get the result, WINGER would want.</p>
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<p>Last time I checked, the debate WAS moving forward, it's just you have some bizaare ideas about why the process is flawed and some unicorn-type job that is required to pick a flag.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="514380" data-time="1441702295">
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<p>Wingers like basil fawlty talking to a foreigner. If he just repeats the same message over and over,louder and louder he thinks we will "get it".<br><br>
Seriously winger you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and jeez we all know yr feelings but it is ok to have a contrary pov or even to be apathetic about the issue.<br><br>
Hectoring just makes you look lame</p>
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<p>Do you think the 4 final flags are really the best NZ can do?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="514383" data-time="1441702472">
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<p>You make it sound like this is the perfect way of doing things to get the result, WINGER would want.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Last time I checked, the debate WAS moving forward, it's just you have some bizaare ideas about why the process is flawed and some unicorn-type job that is required to pick a flag.</p>
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<p>I just want an alternative flag (its time to move on) that we can all be proud of. My process outlined above would achieve this</p>
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<p>The current process will not</p> -
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Why didn't y<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="514380" data-time="1441702295"><p>
Wingers like basil fawlty talking to a foreigner. If he just repeats the same message over and over,louder and louder he thinks we will "get it". <br>
Seriously winger you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and jeez we all know yr feelings but it is ok to have a contrary pov or even to be apathetic about the issue. <br>
Hectoring just makes you look lame</p></blockquote>
My old man does that overseas, he's also deaf which makes it even more difficult for Johnny Foreigner to converse with him. When they were in Italy years ago they gave all their money to the most messed up looking begger outside their hotel . Apparently he looked horrified and tried to give it back which they took as some sort of humble gesture. As they drove away in the cab they saw a couple of other beggers had limped over and beat the shit out of him and stole the cash.<br><br>
Italy has a distinctive flag though, I'm sure WInger approves. -
<p>Give it a rest Winger, I am sick of your spamming. You are just repeating the same thing again and again.</p>
