Flag

Rembrandt

I think this referendum is going to show that we just aren't quite ready for a change yet. A better option for flag design might have swayed it but it is what it is. On the plus side it's got lots of people thinking and talking about it, I'm sure on the next go-around in 20 odd years when the older generation is gone and some of the loons have found their special Heaven's Gate spacecraft then there could very well be a change.

dogmeat

Define older generation.... :knuppel:

Kirwan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="514780" data-time="1441846896">
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Define older generation.... :knuppel:
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you just did.

Winger

Interesting. :Bang_Head:
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11510969'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11510969</a>
When Bill English announced the Flag Consideration Panel months ago, he stressed that the process will be independent, fair and transparent. The panel would make the best decisions based on the best advice from experts.
 
That hasn't happened. By admitting that social media was instrumental, English has admitted that the panel was vulnerable to National's own campaigning machine.
The panel has substituted quality with celebrity, expertise with soundbites, style with memes, and qualitative research with unscientific polls.
 
According to official documents released to me yesterday, the panel didn't consult the advice of any <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexillology'>vexillologists</a>. Instead, they asked for the 'expert' advice of a Nike sportshoe designer who previously designed washing machines.
 
The International Congress of Vexillology met in Sydney on the same day of the final four flag design announcement in Wellington. When leading flag experts were asked what they thought of the four designs, they were underwhelmed. One even suggested that the designs weren't flags at all.
 
The quality of decision-making is so compromised that design guru Mike Hutcheson described the choice between the four designs to be like "choosing the tallest dwarf."
National's pollsters are so concerned about losing the flag debate, that John Key has changed his design preference twice. The result: three of the four designs feature elements of his three different positions.
 
If social media influenced decisions, that makes the whole process not only unreasonable but legally vulnerable. Any bench of judges reviewing the panel's decision would have a field day.
 
When Canada's cross-party special flag committee chose a flag, it was unanimous. The design, which was based on the flag of their military college, neutralised opposition from their veteran's legion and unified the nation.
In New Zealand, instead of the flag debate being a unifying exercise, it has become divisive. Even the flags look divisive, featuring aspects of the Labour and National party logos.
 
When the RSA requested taxpayer money to campaign against changing the flag, Key realised that his main opposition was weak and refused to help them. I predict that the RSA will now be the target of crony smear tactics.
 
John Key knew from the start that his flag crusade was not a vote winner and would corrode his political capital. If he isn't careful, he will get hammered in a fight that he started and then get knocked out at the next election.
 
</blockquote>

jegga

The international congress of vexillology choose this flag for themselves...............
 
<img src="http://www.icv26.com.au/images/ICV26 flag - 400.jpg" alt="ICV26%20flag%20-%20400.jpg">

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Why not become a vexillologist? You can explore the world of flag facts and ideas, either on your own or as a member of a group.
Today many flag study societies exist in different parts of the world, which call themselves â€˜vexillological associationsâ€, and the international body to which they belong is the International Federation of Vexillological Associations (FIAV). For more on this see The Gateway to World Vexillology.
</blockquote>
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/about-us/about-vexillology/'>http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/about-us/about-vexillology/</a>

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="514827" data-time="1441869184">The international congress of vexillology choose this flag for themselves............... 
 <img src="http://www.icv26.com.au/images/ICV26 flag - 400.jpg" alt="ICV26%20flag%20-%20400.jpg"></blockquote>Its not exactly laser kiwi is it?

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="514834" data-time="1441871110">
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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/about-us/about-vexillology/'>http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/about-us/about-vexillology/</a>
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</blockquote>
 
 
I read that and I think it loosely translates to "join us and remain a virgin for life".

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="514827" data-time="1441869184">
The international congress of vexillology choose this flag for themselves............... <img src="http://www.icv26.com.au/images/ICV26 flag - 400.jpg" alt="ICV26%20flag%20-%20400.jpg"></blockquote>
 
Now that's a flag!!!! Imagine the moth frothing if that made our final four

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="514840" data-time="1441871895">
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Now that's a flag!!!! Imagine the moth frothing if that made our final four
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I know. these are apparently experts and they come up with "people burning in lava while sun sets behind them" .
 
I bet that was a big day for them in that article Winger linked, someone actually knew they existed and asked for their opinion.

taniwharugby

that also looks like they have a flag, in thier flag, the symbolism is brilliant!

No Quarter

A flag within a flag. That's deep.

jegga

Reading Wingers article it looks like the flag geeks are a bit gutted they weren't asked and instead someone who designed sneakers for Nike was. Considering how shit their flag is and how competitive the sports shoe industry is I'd take sneaker boys advice over the flag beardos any day if the week .

JC

I don't understand the problem with not "consulting the advice" (sic) of vexillologists. Because you know how you become a vexillologist? You simply say you are. Some of them may be historians, and experts in that field, or designers and expert at design, or even young guys with Asperger's who like to categorise and remember things. But expert vexillologist? Nah, that's not really a thing.

Winger

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations</a>
 
The flag of the FIAV<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations#cite_note-fiavconstitution-1'>[1]</a>
 
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Flag_of_FIAV.svg/443px-Flag_of_FIAV.svg.png" alt="443px-Flag_of_FIAV.svg.png">
 
The flag of the FIAV<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations#cite_note-fiavconstitution-1'>[1]</a>
 
The International Federation of Vexillological Associations (FIAV, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language' title="French language">French</a> acronym: FÃdÃration internationale des associations vexillologiques) is an international federation<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations#cite_note-4'>[4]</a> of 55 regional, national, and multinational associations and institutions across the globe that study <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexillology' title="Vexillology">vexillology</a>, which FIAV defines in its constitution as "the creation and development of a body of knowledge about flags of all types, their forms and functions, and of scientific theories and principles based on that knowledge."

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="514852" data-time="1441874903">
<div>
Reading Wingers article it looks like the flag geeks are a bit gutted they weren't asked and instead someone who designed sneakers for Nike was. Considering how shit their flag is and how competitive the sports shoe industry is I'd take sneaker boys advice over the flag beardos any day if the week .
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Whats wrong with their flag?
 
Its far and away better than the final four shit the committee selected

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514883" data-time="1441886204">
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Whats wrong with their flag?
 
Its far and away better than the final four shit the committee selected
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</blockquote>
Jesus mate you are almost singlehandedly keeping this thread alive. You have boundless energy to debate now that Piri Weepu has retired from the Canes and the ABs ;)

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="514873" data-time="1441881519">
<div>
I don't understand the problem with not "consulting the advice" (sic) of vexillologists. Because you know how you become a vexillologist? You simply say you are. Some of them may be historians, and experts in that field, or designers and expert at design, or even young guys with Asperger's who like to categorise and remember things. But expert vexillologist? Nah, that's not really a thing.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I'm unsure if you are taking the piss or not?
 
The final 4 flags are poor. Surely only a small number will be silly enough to vote for one of these 4 compared to our current flag.
 
This is the reason why the committee should have consulted someone or an organization who knew what they were doing. Rather than Key or someone from Nike who previously designed washing machines. Likewise with the committee.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514883" data-time="1441886204">
<div>
Whats wrong with their flag?
 
Its far and away better than the final four shit the committee selected
</div>
</blockquote>
 
That flag is awful, and the second sentence of your post is surely a pisstake.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="514882" data-time="1441885946">
<div>
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations</a>
 
The flag of the FIAV<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations#cite_note-fiavconstitution-1'>[1]</a>
 
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Flag_of_FIAV.svg/443px-Flag_of_FIAV.svg.png" alt="443px-Flag_of_FIAV.svg.png">
 
The flag of the FIAV<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations#cite_note-fiavconstitution-1'>[1]</a>
 
The International Federation of Vexillological Associations (FIAV, <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_language' title="French language">French</a> acronym: FÃdÃration internationale des associations vexillologiques) is an international federation<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Vexillological_Associations#cite_note-4'>[4]</a> of 55 regional, national, and multinational associations and institutions across the globe that study <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexillology' title="Vexillology">vexillology</a>, which FIAV defines in its constitution as "the creation and development of a body of knowledge about flags of all types, their forms and functions, and of scientific theories and principles based on that knowledge."
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Once again thats awful , it would appear the flag geeks are to flag design as Tiger Woods is to fidelity.
 
I'd still like to know why designing Nike sneakers is something to be sneered at, sneakers are an overpriced me too product and basically the only thing that separates them is the way they look. I'd wager whoever it is you are putting down has a better idea for design than the vexillologists.

The Silver Fern

Flag