TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98)
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@gt12 Thanks for doing the re-watch on Frizell. Seems like he was pretty solid, if not spectacular - and given the place where we find ourselves in terms of sixes, that's not to be sniffed at. Also a good effort to go nearly 80 minutes in a test on the back of 40 minutes of club rugby.
On Franks, his main contribution might be at the scrum, but from what I can see he's pretty excellent at it. Very rare that he gives away a scrum penalty or goes backwards - whereas at the Crusaders, Crockett, Moody and others give/gave away plenty on the loosehead side. Owen can catch and pass - not sure he can run, I don't recall him charging upfield ball in hand.
I guess a key question is whether the next best tighthead can consistently hold up in the scrum against fresh, elite props. One penalty is worth a lot of prop running metres!
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@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone. -
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.Probably too risky for getting a high tackle nowadays
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@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.Probably too risky for getting a high tackle nowadays
@Machpants
the most important part is hit em in the head! they go down reeeeeal easy. Just wrap your arms tho! -
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
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Again? That didn’t take long! Maybe next time he should support Barcelona.
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@Tim Would be helpful if just one person in that article came up with a suggestion.
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@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
Why?
Lomax was the best TH in the first half of super rugby then dropped off and right at the end his scrummaging mysteriously turned to shit. While Ta'avao built and built throughout the season, I don't see a problem at all with his scrummaging these days - doesn't he also adequately cover LH also or is he considered a bit over tall?
Ofa doesn't seem to get done on the TH side either, so it's tough to see just what the value of Franks is.
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@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
Why?
Lomax was the best TH in the first half of super rugby then dropped off and right at the end his scrummaging mysteriously turned to shit. While Ta'avao built and built throughout the season, I don't see a problem at all with his scrummaging these days - doesn't he also adequately cover LH also or is he considered a bit over tall?
Ofa doesn't seem to get done on the TH side either, so it's tough to see just what the value of Franks is.
@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
Why?
Lomax was the best TH in the first half of super rugby then dropped off and right at the end his scrummaging mysteriously turned to shit. While Ta'avao built and built throughout the season, I don't see a problem at all with his scrummaging these days - doesn't he also adequately cover LH also or is he considered a bit over tall?
Ofa doesn't seem to get done on the TH side either, so it's tough to see just what the value of Franks is.
Ofa gets done on the tighthead side a few times each season. The blues v brumbies game this year immediately springs to mind.
Also, compare the crusaders maul defence (one of the best in the comp) to the blues (perennially useless) for the answer to your “why”. Yes I know that’s not down to one player, but the tight five are responsible.
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@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
Meh... It isn't really a big deal. Except of course that it feeds into a narrative that the AB's are past masters at going to the edge of the rules, sometimes beyond and getting away with it.
Other teams don't do it as well them - most (if not all) certainly try but get pinged more often. So you can understand some people getting all hot-and-bothered about it when it is spotted after the event.But it is such a stupid thing to get wound up about. It's like picking one particular incident in the game where the ref may have gotten it wrong / missed something and crying about that costing the game.
This game had a good couple of those - going both ways.
Barrett was in touch before passing to Goodhue for the AB try.
SA won a scrum for a knock-on in their 22 when the Bok player had actually made an early tackle on the AB which should have been an easy AB penalty late in the game.
The list goes on and on and on.
Not worth dwelling on unless you're bored and want to have a good rugby forum / twitter spat -
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
Meh... It isn't really a big deal. Except of course that it feeds into a narrative that the AB's are past masters at going to the edge of the rules, sometimes beyond and getting away with it.
Other teams don't do it as well them - most (if not all) certainly try but get pinged more often. So you can understand some people getting all hot-and-bothered about it when it is spotted after the event.But it is such a stupid thing to get wound up about. It's like picking one particular incident in the game where the ref may have gotten it wrong / missed something and crying about that costing the game.
This game had a good couple of those - going both ways.
Barrett was in touch before passing to Goodhue for the AB try.
SA won a scrum for a knock-on in their 22 when the Bok player had actually made an early tackle on the AB which should have been an easy AB penalty late in the game.
The list goes on and on and on.
Not worth dwelling on unless you're bored and want to have a good rugby forum / twitter spat -
@Billy-Webb if Barrett was actually out that might work...
@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Billy-Webb if Barrett was actually out that might work...
The end-on camera angle showed he most definitely stayed in. But it was close.
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@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Billy-Webb if Barrett was actually out that might work...
The end-on camera angle showed he most definitely stayed in. But it was close.
@Bovidae said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Billy-Webb if Barrett was actually out that might work...
The end-on camera angle showed he most definitely stayed in. But it was close.
Yup. Not unhappy with the call.
Probably a poor example to have used but the gist of what I am saying stands - no point in taking single incidents and making a meal of them after the game.
Changes nothing. -
@Bovidae said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Billy-Webb if Barrett was actually out that might work...
The end-on camera angle showed he most definitely stayed in. But it was close.
Yup. Not unhappy with the call.
Probably a poor example to have used but the gist of what I am saying stands - no point in taking single incidents and making a meal of them after the game.
Changes nothing.@Billy-Webb ummm, not exactly making your point to make things up! I'm not unhappy with the decision to award three points for the first Springboks penalty goal even though it missed.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
Meh... It isn't really a big deal. Except of course that it feeds into a narrative that the AB's are past masters at going to the edge of the rules, sometimes beyond and getting away with it.
Other teams don't do it as well them - most (if not all) certainly try but get pinged more often. So you can understand some people getting all hot-and-bothered about it when it is spotted after the event.But it is such a stupid thing to get wound up about. It's like picking one particular incident in the game where the ref may have gotten it wrong / missed something and crying about that costing the game.
This game had a good couple of those - going both ways.
Barrett was in touch before passing to Goodhue for the AB try.
SA won a scrum for a knock-on in their 22 when the Bok player had actually made an early tackle on the AB which should have been an easy AB penalty late in the game.
The list goes on and on and on.
Not worth dwelling on unless you're bored and want to have a good rugby forum / twitter spat@Billy-Webb said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
Meh... It isn't really a big deal. Except of course that it feeds into a narrative that the AB's are past masters at going to the edge of the rules, sometimes beyond and getting away with it.
Other teams don't do it as well them - most (if not all) certainly try but get pinged more often. So you can understand some people getting all hot-and-bothered about it when it is spotted after the event.But it is such a stupid thing to get wound up about. It's like picking one particular incident in the game where the ref may have gotten it wrong / missed something and crying about that costing the game.
This game had a good couple of those - going both ways.
Barrett was in touch before passing to Goodhue for the AB try.
SA won a scrum for a knock-on in their 22 when the Bok player had actually made an early tackle on the AB which should have been an easy AB penalty late in the game.
The list goes on and on and on.
Not worth dwelling on unless you're bored and want to have a good rugby forum / twitter spatWhose narrative is that? Given what happened during the Lions tour how could any sane individual claim that the ABs get the rub of the green from the refs. Every team that's been best in the past 20 years, whether Aus, England, SA or NZ have been labelled as subtle cheats etc etc. It's all complete nonsense. Maybe they've just been the better team?
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@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
That’s exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where can’t really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. I’d have liked to see him get a chance, because Ta’avao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karl’s injury is a shame.
How are these other guys as scrummagers compared to Franks who is still arguably the worlds best in this facet along with that Irish fella.
@MN5 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
That’s exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where can’t really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. I’d have liked to see him get a chance, because Ta’avao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karl’s injury is a shame.
How are these other guys as scrummagers compared to Franks who is still arguably the worlds best in this facet along with that Irish fella.
Pakman ratings (at test level):
Franks A+/A
Laulala A/A-
Ofa B+/B
Ta'avao BAround the field Ofa/Angus/Nepo/Owen.
Comes down to priorities/mix.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
Meh... It isn't really a big deal. Except of course that it feeds into a narrative that the AB's are past masters at going to the edge of the rules, sometimes beyond and getting away with it.
Other teams don't do it as well them - most (if not all) certainly try but get pinged more often. So you can understand some people getting all hot-and-bothered about it when it is spotted after the event.But it is such a stupid thing to get wound up about. It's like picking one particular incident in the game where the ref may have gotten it wrong / missed something and crying about that costing the game.
This game had a good couple of those - going both ways.
Barrett was in touch before passing to Goodhue for the AB try.
SA won a scrum for a knock-on in their 22 when the Bok player had actually made an early tackle on the AB which should have been an easy AB penalty late in the game.
The list goes on and on and on.
Not worth dwelling on unless you're bored and want to have a good rugby forum / twitter spat@Billy-Webb said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Jaguares4real said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
It's cheating albeit low level
But why does BB feel to move the ball at all
Bearing in mind it's his home ground Does it indicate a lack of confidence?
He did after all miss the penaltyHe was probably unsure if he would make the distance. Or maybe there were other things going through that devious and diabolical mind. Seriously, who gives a sheet. It's like a kicker stealing a yard or two when kicking for touch.
Meh... It isn't really a big deal. Except of course that it feeds into a narrative that the AB's are past masters at going to the edge of the rules, sometimes beyond and getting away with it.
Other teams don't do it as well them - most (if not all) certainly try but get pinged more often. So you can understand some people getting all hot-and-bothered about it when it is spotted after the event.But it is such a stupid thing to get wound up about. It's like picking one particular incident in the game where the ref may have gotten it wrong / missed something and crying about that costing the game.
This game had a good couple of those - going both ways.
Barrett was in touch before passing to Goodhue for the AB try.
SA won a scrum for a knock-on in their 22 when the Bok player had actually made an early tackle on the AB which should have been an easy AB penalty late in the game.
The list goes on and on and on.
Not worth dwelling on unless you're bored and want to have a good rugby forum / twitter spatYes, SA Rugby Magazine has been pushing this one hard on Twitter. Of course, they don't show the end-on footage where it shows him clearly in the field of play (still close to being out, but there's clear slither of green between his boot and the white sideline).
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@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
Why?
Lomax was the best TH in the first half of super rugby then dropped off and right at the end his scrummaging mysteriously turned to shit. While Ta'avao built and built throughout the season, I don't see a problem at all with his scrummaging these days - doesn't he also adequately cover LH also or is he considered a bit over tall?
Ofa doesn't seem to get done on the TH side either, so it's tough to see just what the value of Franks is.
@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
Why?
Lomax was the best TH in the first half of super rugby then dropped off and right at the end his scrummaging mysteriously turned to shit. While Ta'avao built and built throughout the season, I don't see a problem at all with his scrummaging these days - doesn't he also adequately cover LH also or is he considered a bit over tall?
Ofa doesn't seem to get done on the TH side either, so it's tough to see just what the value of Franks is.
Chiefs tried him there, which allowed Nepo as TH but not a success. Height not a help.
