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red terror

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="515022" data-time="1441945738">
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All this taking the piss is grand but it ignores historical reality.
 
Look what a great job the vexy's did on the Union Jack, Stars and Stripes, assorted tricolore's, Red Flag and all the other iconic flag's of the world.
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One thing rarely mentioned about ol' Adolf is that he was a master vexilliologist.

Tim

He certainly had a way with lasting, emotionally resonant symbolism.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="514959" data-time="1441924511">
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No, I'm not taking the piss. You posted something that suggested that the lack of vexillologists on the panel was in some way a problem. But vexillologists are by definition self-appointed. They are people who like flags.
 
Liking something is no qualification for dictating if or how others may engage with, enjoy or participate in it. And the fact a vexillologist may take the business of flags seriously doesn't make their subjective opinion more valuable than, say, Jegga's subjective opinion. Despite their obvious and stated interest in the subject they are no more "right" in their opinions than BJ Lochore is.
 
Your demand for their inclusion is as preposterous as suggesting that musicians should have a group of music critics vet their songs prior to release, because otherwise the songs will be crap.
 
We get it, you don't like the options. But that's just your opinion. There's fact, then there's opinion. Know the difference.
 
BTW, the "designed washing machines" thing is horseshit, and you should know that. First, t's the kind of detail that gets included in a story because someone with a grudge (maybe a vexillologist group) fed it to the "journalist" and I'm unsurprised it's in a piece in the Herald, but I'm surprised you can't recognise a beat-up when you see it. Second, nobody gives a shit.
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I don't know what the problem is. But there clearly was one. Its a bit like the terrible Dome in the UK. A Govt run project badly cocked up. its turned out all right though and as long as none of these 4 final flags become the final flag it will in NZ too. It will be a wasted opportunity but maybe not
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">"Then there's the too-late-losers thing. Fair enough, up to a point. Latecomers can be really annoying.' 
"Thousands of suggestions also poured in from a public engaged in what had become a great Canadian debate about identity and how best to represent it. 
3,541 entries were submitted: many contained common elements: 
2,136 contained maple leaves, 
408 contained Union Jacks, 
389 contained beavers, and 
359 contained Fleurs-de-lys. 
At the last minute, Matheson slipped a flag designed by historian George Stanley into the mix. The idea came to him while standing in front of the Mackenzie Building of the Royal Military College of Canada, while viewing the college flag flying in the wind. Stanley submitted a March 23, 1964 formal detailed memorandum[4] to John Matheson on the history of Canada's emblems, predating Pearson's raising the issue, in which he warned that any new flag "must avoid the use of national or racial symbols that are of a divisive nature" and that it would be "clearly inadvisable" to create a flag that carried either a Union Jack or a Fleur-de-lis. The design put forward had a single red maple leaf on a white plain background, flanked by two red borders.
 
</blockquote>
 
And RE "nobody give a shit". True up until Red Peak. But now it seems people are finally taking an interest. And thank god this incompetent committee has made their limited top 4 decision so we can now move on. Hopefully to a good replacement flag. Maybe not now but within the next 5-10 years 

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11511397'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11511397</a>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
If nothing else, this much is clear: Red Peak begets puce pique.
Those over the past week who have spoken in favour of putting the Aaron Dustin-designed flag on the shortlist are "Red Peak trolls", thundered one of New Zealand's finest broadcasters, Sean Plunket. It was just "a few thousand people on social media", it was "the John Key haters ... Too late losers!"
"Twenty people on Twitter isn't a groundswell," harrumphed the excellent politics writer Rob Hosking. Red Peak advocates were "trying - hilariously and belatedly - to manufacture a defeat for the prime minister. It is bitter, it is personal, and it is also more than a bit stupid."
They were joined by a handful of other hyperventilating commentators, including a Fairfax columnist from the Manawatu who denounced me for starting a "cul-de-sac" social media campaign, in courageous defiance of the fact that I didn't start the campaign and the piece I wrote was in the Herald.
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Their argument, in short: John Key haters! Fnarr! Social media bubble! Fnarr! It's too late! Process! Fnarr!
Inconveniently, Rowan Simpson, who sparked the Red Peak surge in a blog post, submitted a silver-fern-on-black flag, Key's original preference. Of his political persuasions Simpson says: "I'm left-handed but otherwise mostly right." Act leader David Seymour, who actively supports Red Peak going on the shortlist, seems an unlikely leftwing plotter, as does former Act leader Rodney Hide. Mike Hosking backs the flag's inclusion, too. Truly, the complexities of these Red Peak cossacks' anti-Key, anti-fern jihad are too confusing for me.
There's no doubt that some want to roll up Red Peak and use it to beat Key. They're the same small group that would pounce on the late arrival of a bus as evidence of Key's wickedness.
Have a look at the ways the design has been put to use at redpeakof.nz - in a week, people have slapped it on shoes, dresses, comic books, dropped into sports events, graphs, assembled on cakes. There are dozens of ingenious images there, and they epitomise the heart of the Red Peak mood: creative and curious, critical but constructive. A social media bubble? Well, more than 35,000 have signed the online petition; 20,000 followers on the Red Peak Facebook page is not to be sniffed at - it's more than three times the number following the official flag project page. When the flag panel roadshow attracted tiny audiences around the country, we were assured not to worry: the engagement would happen online. It certainly is now.
 
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dogmeat

20,000 followers for a single issue media beat up is actually a pretty poor following.
 
A cute lil puddy tat will get way more
 
Maybe this would be a good post colonial flag
 
<img src="http://guideimg.alibaba.com/images/shop/105/02/11/2/custom-british-flag-red-blue-white-stipes-cross-cute-animals-cat-black-waterproof-polyester-fabric-with-zipper-closure-portable-hand-wallet-pouch-money-bag-coin-purse-two-side_574482.jpg" alt="custom-british-flag-red-blue-white-stipe">

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="515030" data-time="1441947710">
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And RE "nobody give a shit". True up until Red Peak. But now it seems people are finally taking an interest. And thank god this incompetent committee has made their limited top 4 decision so we can now move on. Hopefully to a good replacement flag. Maybe not now but within the next 5-10 years
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11511397'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11511397</a>
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What, "Red Peak" has made lots of people care about a designer for Nike having worked on washing machines? Nah.
 
BTW, linking to a column by Toby Manhire hardly lends credibility to an argument. You might as well link to Rattue to prove a point about rugby.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="515033" data-time="1441948729">
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What, "Red Peak" has made lots of people care about a designer for Nike having worked on washing machines? Nah.
 
BTW, linking to a column by Toby Manhire hardly lends credibility to an argument. You might as well link to Rattue to prove a point about rugby.
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</blockquote>
 
I would like to see TWO new flags added
 
Red Peak
and
A professional designed decent black and white only silver fern flag
 
Do you agree with this?

Mokey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="514996" data-time="1441934612">
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<img src="https://41.media.tumblr.com/59b4502e58e64e97c6dfa2ea585a4d1e/tumblr_inline_nuhno01kQb1rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nuhno01kQb1rzvgly_540.jpg">
 
More black. Check.
Lose the gold. Check.
Sheep. Check.
Red peak. Check-check.
 
(There's no satisfying some people.)
 
Anythin' else required to make this the perfect Peoples' Flag...?
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</blockquote>
 
Now you mention it, I'm pretty sure we need something from LOTR to represent tourism and the booming film industry.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mokey" data-cid="515037" data-time="1441949433">
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Now you mention it, I'm pretty sure we need something from LOTR to represent tourism and the booming film industry.
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You should have been on the committee

dogmeat

I saw this yesterday and thought at the time it would add to the flag debate
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.buzzfeed.com/kimberleydadds/the-21-most-glorious-photos-of-bilbo-baggins-giving-the-fing'><img height="389" src="http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2013-10/enhanced/webdr03/24/5/enhanced-buzz-8066-1382607107-16.jpg" width="500" alt="enhanced-buzz-8066-1382607107-16.jpg"></a>

Winger

I've bought my Red Peak flags
 
I might take them to the rugby
 
1x Standard 3/4 Flag - 1200 x 600 for $49.95 each 
1x Hand Waver Flag for $17.95 each 
Subtotal : $67.90 NZD 
Shipping : $18.00 NZD 
Total : $85.90 NZD

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="515035" data-time="1441949115">
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I would like to see TWO new flags added
 
Red Peak
and
A professional designed decent black and white only silver fern flag
 
Do you agree with this?
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No.
- There was a process that I could have chosen to partake in. I didn't.
- I understood that that meant I'd abdicate responsibility to those that did participate because I know how democracy works.
- I knew who was on the panel because it was published. I never cared that renowned vexillologist Sir Richard Pompalope wasn't invited onto the committee, or that Philippe Starck didn't have any input. I never lobbied the govern to to get them to revise the panel to make it designer-led. Presumably you did at the appropriate time.
- I knew how much it would cost because that was in the public domain.
- I knew the path that the decision making process would take because that was outlined and scrupulously followed.
- I don't expect the rules to be changed now because the outcome wasn't one I wanted, or because I now have a case of remorse because I was late to the party and now want a second chance.
- I will get a chance to vote on one of the 4 designs if I want to take it. I might.
- I will get a chance to vote on whether the winner of the first vote displaces our existing flag. I might.
 
I'm fine with all of this. You're not. That's OK, but don't expect me to care that you're not fine with it, no matter how many times you repeat the same thing. Which is a lot.

Winger

The flag consideration Panels other selections. First for a new family car
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheFlagConsiderationPanelsOtherSelections?src=hash'>https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheFlagConsiderationPanelsOtherSelections?src=hash</a>
 
<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COhYM_iWoAASRX_.jpg" alt="COhYM_iWoAASRX_.jpg">

Winger

Other selections
 
<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COh_WLHUYAAMVhe.png" alt="COh_WLHUYAAMVhe.png">

jegga

Winger those articles you linked are bullshit in a number of ways first and foremost no one has accused Simpson of bring a leftard shit stirrer, a decent number of the people pushing red peak are though and they aren't helping your cause .Here's a left wing blogger admitting it along with a number of other good points 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/09/08/and-another/'>https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2015/09/08/and-another/</a>

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="515046" data-time="1441953104">
Other selections <img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COh_WLHUYAAMVhe.png" alt="COh_WLHUYAAMVhe.png"></blockquote>
Based on your love for the flag geeks selections I'm guessing you drive one of the three wheelers? Perhaps the yellow one?

Catogrande

Winger, now you've mentioned the Dome I feel able to add something to the thread. The problem with and the unpopularity of the Dome wasn't because it was shit but because it wasn't actually a dome.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="515058" data-time="1441957632">
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Winger, now you've mentioned the Dome I feel able to add something to the thread. The problem with and the unpopularity of the Dome wasn't because it was shit but because it wasn't actually a dome.
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Did you go to it when it first opened?
 
It was not very good

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="515057" data-time="1441957368">
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Based on your love for the flag geeks selections I'm guessing you drive one of the three wheelers? Perhaps the yellow one?
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If I had to pick one it would be the black one. But I would prefer this one added as an option
 
<img src="https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3f/78/ae/3f78aea158949c2d39179e85ce6d07f4.jpg" alt="3f78aea158949c2d39179e85ce6d07f4.jpg">

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="515041" data-time="1441950695">
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I've bought my Red Peak flags
 
I might take them to the rugby
 
1x Standard 3/4 Flag - 1200 x 600 for $49.95 each 
1x Hand Waver Flag for $17.95 each 
Subtotal : $67.90 NZD 
Shipping : $18.00 NZD 
Total : $85.90 NZD
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</blockquote>
 
they'll be collectors when the referendum is done and we get one of the 4 or keep the status quo! 
 
I went to the dome.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="515041" data-time="1441950695">I've bought my Red Peak flags 
 
I might take them to the rugby 
 
1x Standard 3/4 Flag - 1200 x 600 for $49.95 each 
1x Hand Waver Flag for $17.95 each 
Subtotal : $67.90 NZD 
Shipping : $18.00 NZD 
Total : $85.90 NZD</blockquote>If it doesn't make it in late you can always store it away with your Betamax player

The Silver Fern

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