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Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="515204" data-time="1442017164">
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If I state the following as "fact" does that cancel Wingers opinions?
Red Peak is shit.
 
Or do I have to re-post it 150 times and yell louder?
 
I dig the symbolism in it's development - nice that it's got some reason behind it. But the end result is bland and does not speak "New Zealand" to me. Looks like it was designed by a graphic designer - with end result being a passionless triangle.
 
I'm the most traditionalist person I know. I didn't think I would ever advocate for a flag change.
 
But I am. And I like the Lockwood designs - and I have come around to Black and Blue. The imagery speaks "New Zealand". It has the Southern Cross of "my" flag. It has the colours of NZ - red, white and blue AND black. It has the silver fern which is an iconic image of New Zealand. It retains history and gives me the impression we are looking to progress as a young country.
 
Red Peak is just so Meh as an image. Any country could have a flag of stripes and triangles. Many do. At first glance nobody is going to say wow - you're defined by ... um a stripe and a triangle.
 
In contrast I think people would look at my preferred flag and realise that the symbols on there mean something to New Zealand - even if they don't know what they mean.
 
The process may not be perfect but realistically it's pretty good. The flag committee are New Zealanders who obviously looked for symbols unique to NZ. (A triangle isn't ... any country can have a triangle).
 
I don't like the koru or fern options. 
 
But that is my opinion. And I'm mature enough to admit it is opinion.
 
Now I've read this thread this morning can I have my three hours back?
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But this process should not be just all about what John wants booboo.
 
I'm repeating myself but it should have been a vote to give the public a range of quality varied options that they can vote on. So have one fern (or maybe two at max). But not three out of four and one non fern option that hasn't a hope of being selected. This is no choice at all.
 
And you may like the black and blue fern option but for me its shit. The blue used is the wrong blue. The fern design is not great. The black and blue should swap positions. Do we accept an OK flag at best or start again and do it right next time. Where we get a real choice. 1 fern and three other quality non fern options would be my preference.

taniwharugby

So Key influenced the panel? 
If your peak flag was one of the 4 selected by the panel, I suspect this thread would have a third of the posts.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="515315" data-time="1442048879">
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So Key influenced the panel? 
If your peak flag was one of the 4 selected by the panel, I suspect this thread would have a third of the posts.
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Do you agree with the point I made about choice. (And that the final 4 are crap)?

taniwharugby

No

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="515319" data-time="1442049720">
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No
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No to both?

taniwharugby

No i don't agree with your point about choice and I don't agree the final 4 are crap

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="515200" data-time="1442013796">
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It is great that people buy the red peak flag, makes it obvious who the morons are in the crowd.
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A typical BSG post. But why is paying a small amount of money to support a cause so wrong? I dislike the NZ flag and don't particular like the AB fern flag. So I would like to move to a new flag but dislike the final 4 options. So am willing to spend some money to help promote my preference.

canefan

That's the thing about wishing for a change. You might get change, just not the change you would choose

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="515324" data-time="1442050272">
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That's the thing about wishing for a change. You might get change, just not the change you would choose
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So then we end up with another flag I don't like.. But it least NZ has been through this process. Aust will be watching and should know what works and doesn't.
 
But my prediction is we will stick with the current flag and do the process as it should have been done within 10-20 years. And change to a flag without the fern on it. :yes:

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="515321" data-time="1442049918">
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No i don't agree with your point about choice and I don't agree the final 4 are crap
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So why waste money on the first vote then. Just let the committee decide on the best flag and have the 2nd vote?

taniwharugby

sorry, maybe in amongst your ramblings I missed something, I agree with the processand the committee...although had you read any of my other posts, you'd of already known that.

Godder

I don't particularly like any of them, but don't particularly like the current flag either...

taniwharugby

Winger

Its similar but no more.
 
<img src="http://41.media.tumblr.com/9e8436caaed24d416d895279c606b548/tumblr_inline_nu16twwfJd1qbuymk_1280.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nu16twwfJd1qbuymk_1280.jpg">

Winger

Agree with the last point. 2 different ferns would clash at rugby matches.
 
Whereas the Red Peak and fern flag goes very well together.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://rickdavidson.com/2015/09/red-peak-a-nation-all-grown-up/'>http://rickdavidson.com/2015/09/red-peak-a-nation-all-grown-up/</a>
 
Itâ€s just a bunch of triangles.
If you turn it upside down and squint it looks like (insert icon/logo/motif/sports shirt of your choice). 
Itâ€s too Maori / Pakeha. 
It shouldnâ€t need to be explained. It needs a picture.
 
Like the four selected flag submissions, and any other piece of design, the Red Peak flag has itâ€s critics. The above statements may not make for the best arguments, but people may simply not feel a connection to it, and I understand that completely.
Iâ€ve followed the flag debate with a mild interest, with the plan of voting for the status quo, it all being a huge waste of our collective cash. The â€˜chosen 4â€ only cemented my thoughts on that, looking cluttered and unpolished visually, and from a design point of view being a nightmare to reproduce and scale. No reflection on the designers and I congratulate them on their success, these being essentially first concepts (concerning considering they may also be finals).
Any new flag would need to be one of the worldâ€s best to sway me, something that says we as a nation have grown up and are proud to be front and centre on the world stage.
 
<img height="188" src="http://rickdavidson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/tukutuku.jpg" width="161" alt="tukutuku.jpg">
When I first viewed the â€˜Red Peakâ€ design in passing I was mildly impressed. This based on an opinion the whole thing was a farce, and that the chosen designs had destroyed the whole process anyway. But in the design I immediately saw a section of the Union Jack â€“ arranged into a Maori tukutuku design. Ok, clever. Then the other elements began to soak through.
The white stripe of a long white cloud. A snow covered range, volcanic. Night and day, the first to see the dawn.
An upward arrow of a thriving nation, of winners, of progressive thinking. Bold, bright, powerful.
After reading a few comments from some struggling with the simple triangles, I put together the above Red Peak gif animation to express some of the elements I myself saw. But there is of course more to this design than a mountain range and wharenui.
 
 
As a designer, I began to see how this flag would play out in designs, small icons, banners. Ok, very well. Simple to create, strong colours, easily reduced. The triangle is literally a shape of strength, unbreakable. The centered design forces your eye in and up. Alongside other flags of the world which most often travel sideways, it draws your eye.
The designs of the selected fern and star flags are impossible to draw from scratch and reduce to a muddy blur. The black koru is, well unfortunately, a black whirlpool of death.
 
 
I love the Silver Fern black flag. That will always be a part of NZ culture. It is not on our flag, yet still firmly embedded as an icon of our nation. There are very few that would vote for a black national flag but as a design, beautiful. My fear is that by including another variation of this in our national flag, we would dilute the stark silver on black flag itself.
So how would these flags sit next to this wonderful icon of ours in a crowd. For me, a different style of fern on another flag looks like a misprint and would hurt the fern as a single entity. While the Red Peak compliments and enhances itâ€s complex design.
 
<img src="http://rickdavidson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/pairs1.jpg" alt="pairs1.jpg">

canefan

Firstly I like the story of the dawn flag and quite like the simplicity. I think a design like that could grow on people and in a few years become increasingly accepted. But Winger you are blinded by your own opinion. Apart from the Blue in the upper right corner it is all but identical save for slight difference in the geometry of the triangles

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="515384" data-time="1442092860">
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Its similar but no more.
 
 
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There's none so blind as those who will not see

canefan

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201538/redpeak_480x271.jpg'>http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201538/redpeak_480x271.jpg</a>

Billy Tell

Don't mind saying I'll be voting for change. Would vote for anything else, basically (within reason). Did find though that the "Red Peak" design not being so original after all was extremely amusing.
 
I live in a country that likes to fly their flags, but I wouldn't be caught dead flying a flag that is based on a colonial relic template and is confused constantly with Australia's. It was bad enough living in Ireland for a number of years, and explaining 5 times a day that "no that is a NZ accent".
 
I think the attached image says it all for me really
 
<img src="https://yournz.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/flagscommonwealth.jpg" alt="flagscommonwealth.jpg">

infidel

The Silver Fern

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