AB squad for the Rugby Championship
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@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B Not to bring up player height again, but outside of Lavanini, you might be surprised at how short the Argentinean locks/loosies are.
ARG v NZL
Starting locks:
Tomás Lavanini - 2.01m | 123 KG
Guido Petti Pagadizábal - 1.94m | 110 KGReserve lock (replaced Kremer):
Matías Alemanno - 1.98m | 112 KGStarting loosies:
6 Pablo Matera – 1.93m | 107 KG
7 Marcos Kremer – 1.95m | 116 KG (also plays at lock)
8 Javier Ortega Desio - 1.93m | 109 KGReserve loosie (replaced Lavanini):
Tomás Lezana - 1.87m | 102 KG@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B Not to bring up player height again, but outside of Lavanini, you might be surprised at how short the Argentinean locks/loosies are.
ARG v NZL
Starting locks:
Tomás Lavanini - 2.01m | 123 KG
Guido Petti Pagadizábal - 1.94m | 110 KGAnd Petti is their main lock.
Isa played at no.8 vs Aust and is only 1.88 m.
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@No-Quarter Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you different!
We've had a dominant lineout with:
Retallick 2.04 m
Whitelock 2.02 m
Kaino 1.96 m
Read 1.94 mAll tall men for their position - and Read and Whitelock are superb jumpers. Read's been IMO opinion the best 3rd option in the world for a long time - and Whitelock probably the best overall - though there's doubtless some NH people who would tout their own guys.
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you different!
We've had a dominant lineout with:
Retallick 2.04 m
Whitelock 2.02 m
Kaino 1.96 m
Read 1.94 mAll tall men for their position - and Read and Whitelock are superb jumpers. Read's been IMO opinion the best 3rd option in the world for a long time - and Whitelock probably the best overall - though there's doubtless some NH people who would tout their own guys.
don't overlook the lifting height too. Tall lifter plus tall jumper is the ultimate combo
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@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you different!
We've had a dominant lineout with:
Retallick 2.04 m
Whitelock 2.02 m
Kaino 1.96 m
Read 1.94 mAll tall men for their position - and Read and Whitelock are superb jumpers. Read's been IMO opinion the best 3rd option in the world for a long time - and Whitelock probably the best overall - though there's doubtless some NH people who would tout their own guys.
don't overlook the lifting height too. Tall lifter plus tall jumper is the ultimate combo
As dirty as it makes me feel, I have to say that Fifita is not only a good jumper, but one other thing I noticed in the re-watch is that he’s also a pretty good lifter.
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Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
@TeWaio said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
And that his athleticism will come in handy on the field in Japan.
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@TeWaio said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
And that his athleticism will come in handy on the field in Japan.
If that’s the case, they need to set up better/different front running pods and put him up there.
Right now our front pods don’t even slow down the defense - they are too far in front so super hard to use anyway. I’m hoping that is one thing they have up their sleeve.
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@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you different!
We've had a dominant lineout with:
Retallick 2.04 m
Whitelock 2.02 m
Kaino 1.96 m
Read 1.94 mAll tall men for their position - and Read and Whitelock are superb jumpers. Read's been IMO opinion the best 3rd option in the world for a long time - and Whitelock probably the best overall - though there's doubtless some NH people who would tout their own guys.
don't overlook the lifting height too. Tall lifter plus tall jumper is the ultimate combo
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you different!
We've had a dominant lineout with:
Retallick 2.04 m
Whitelock 2.02 m
Kaino 1.96 m
Read 1.94 mAll tall men for their position - and Read and Whitelock are superb jumpers. Read's been IMO opinion the best 3rd option in the world for a long time - and Whitelock probably the best overall - though there's doubtless some NH people who would tout their own guys.
don't overlook the lifting height too. Tall lifter plus tall jumper is the ultimate combo
Yeah. My overall point is that Hansen's very clearly been searching for a like-for-like swap with Kaino - picking Squire, Fifita, Dixon and Frizell.
He's been quite formulaic in swapping out McCaw (108kg) for Sam Cane (built to 109 kg) - heavy opensides.
If he now switches to an Ardie/Sam combo then that's definitely not what the plan was.
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@ACT-Crusader Douglas must be bubbling under.
@Bones said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@ACT-Crusader Douglas must be bubbling under.
Bench
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@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you different!
We've had a dominant lineout with:
Retallick 2.04 m
Whitelock 2.02 m
Kaino 1.96 m
Read 1.94 mAll tall men for their position - and Read and Whitelock are superb jumpers. Read's been IMO opinion the best 3rd option in the world for a long time - and Whitelock probably the best overall - though there's doubtless some NH people who would tout their own guys.
don't overlook the lifting height too. Tall lifter plus tall jumper is the ultimate combo
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter Don't believe anyone who tries to tell you different!
We've had a dominant lineout with:
Retallick 2.04 m
Whitelock 2.02 m
Kaino 1.96 m
Read 1.94 mAll tall men for their position - and Read and Whitelock are superb jumpers. Read's been IMO opinion the best 3rd option in the world for a long time - and Whitelock probably the best overall - though there's doubtless some NH people who would tout their own guys.
don't overlook the lifting height too. Tall lifter plus tall jumper is the ultimate combo
You saying we miss Crocky?
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Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
@TeWaio said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
And although he didn’t reach the level of Kaino, there are some similarities there in that path with Messam as well, considered a bit loose in the beginning, turned into a handy test footballer
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@TeWaio said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
And although he didn’t reach the level of Kaino, there are some similarities there in that path with Messam as well, considered a bit loose in the beginning, turned into a handy test footballer
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
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@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
There was a period there , where I thought he did a pretty good job in kainos absence,( was kaino in Japan ? ) he would be better than what we have now imo.
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@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
There was a period there , where I thought he did a pretty good job in kainos absence,( was kaino in Japan ? ) he would be better than what we have now imo.
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@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
There was a period there , where I thought he did a pretty good job in kainos absence,( was kaino in Japan ? ) he would be better than what we have now imo.
@kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
There was a period there , where I thought he did a pretty good job in kainos absence,( was kaino in Japan ? ) he would be better than what we have now imo.
One test loss in that 2012-13 period. Agree on your second sentence.
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@kiwiinmelb sorry. I was never convinced
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@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
one of those guys that was an absolute superstar at super level - but never quite made it at test level.
I always thought his natural position would have been at centre.. there was some talk of putting him there for Waikato after he got dropped for 2011!
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@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@kiwiinmelb Messam was just a shade below test level. Never felt confident in him. He was in between a 6 and 7.
one of those guys that was an absolute superstar at super level - but never quite made it at test level.
I always thought his natural position would have been at centre.. there was some talk of putting him there for Waikato after he got dropped for 2011!
@WillieTheWaiter agree with the first paragraph.
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Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
@TeWaio said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
he didn't get player of the year in '11 cause it was skewed by the final.. he had an absolute mozza in that game - possum in headlights stuff. Don't blame him tho to be honest the pressure would have been intense!
how long was it after '03 before he came back... was a good wee while... I remember being at The Church the day after that baa baa's match yarning to Marty and he came over gonig YOU AND ME BRO WE'LL BE STARTING NEXT YEAR WOOO...
i'm standing there thinking errrrm yeh nahhhhh... mccaw got that 7 jersey locked up methinks.. Kaino was a skinny young fulla then! -
@TeWaio said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Regarding 6, I'm still kind of hoping Fifita comes good, and that TWM see something in him we don't in training/data etc.
I think of the start of Kaino's career, he played the BaaBaas games in 2003 (I think) then was nowhere for years, before finally becoming an AB regular post 2007 RWC. And by 2011 RWC was the best in the world (how did he not win player of the year in '11 over Dusatoir?!). Like Fifita, he was a super athlete at the start of his career, but too loose. I think he was the fastest player in the Auckland team at one stage? Then as he matured, tightened his game up, and then just crushed ppl at Test level for nearly a decade.
Only issue with this comparison is Fifita isn't that young at 27...
he didn't get player of the year in '11 cause it was skewed by the final.. he had an absolute mozza in that game - possum in headlights stuff. Don't blame him tho to be honest the pressure would have been intense!
how long was it after '03 before he came back... was a good wee while... I remember being at The Church the day after that baa baa's match yarning to Marty and he came over gonig YOU AND ME BRO WE'LL BE STARTING NEXT YEAR WOOO...
i'm standing there thinking errrrm yeh nahhhhh... mccaw got that 7 jersey locked up methinks.. Kaino was a skinny young fulla then!@WillieTheWaiter if you recall we saw Kaino in the NZ age group team that won the RWC a year or so prior to that and he was even skinnier...
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Kaino's debut AB game v Baabaas was end of year Tour 2004.
He then made his test debut vs Ireland in 2006 (June) but was poor.
In 2008 he made the ABs regularly. He got mucked around a bit in 2008 by initially playing 8 (I recall a Bledisloe where he was at 8 and Rodders was at 6) before settling into 6.
