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red terror

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="515800" data-time="1442264656">
<div>
<img src="http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/6/q/9/g/d/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.16q8ww.png/1441679906915.jpg" alt="1441679906915.jpg">
 
 
I'd go far as to say the supposed ground swell in favour of peak engineering is due solely to that picture.
 
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</blockquote>
 
 
<img src="https://41.media.tumblr.com/f641708cc464de65296e0744aa57e971/tumblr_inline_nupjw6YGnd1rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nupjw6YGnd1rzvgly_540.jpg">
 
Thus Spake Zarathustra
 
<img src="https://40.media.tumblr.com/a03231927c9c814c28ca7b8655b518ea/tumblr_inline_nupjwc9NSo1rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nupjwc9NSo1rzvgly_540.jpg">
 
Liberty Leading The People
 
<img src="https://41.media.tumblr.com/d5a5b502d5750c9f907c8f4e1ba98f04/tumblr_inline_nupjwi99Q41rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nupjwi99Q41rzvgly_540.jpg">
 
Thus Spake Liberty
 
<img src="https://40.media.tumblr.com/d89a45fabdd6beb4fd4eb3655455b982/tumblr_inline_nupjwtt76r1rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nupjwtt76r1rzvgly_540.jpg">
 
Thus Spake Peak Engineering Leading The People?

Virgil

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="515986" data-time="1442303072"><img src="https://41.media.tumblr.com/f641708cc464de65296e0744aa57e971/tumblr_inline_nupjw6YGnd1rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nupjw6YGnd1rzvgly_540.jpg"> 
Thus Spake Zarathustra <img src="https://40.media.tumblr.com/a03231927c9c814c28ca7b8655b518ea/tumblr_inline_nupjwc9NSo1rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nupjwc9NSo1rzvgly_540.jpg"> 
Liberty Leading The People <img src="https://41.media.tumblr.com/d5a5b502d5750c9f907c8f4e1ba98f04/tumblr_inline_nupjwi99Q41rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nupjwi99Q41rzvgly_540.jpg"> 
Thus Spake Liberty <img src="https://40.media.tumblr.com/d89a45fabdd6beb4fd4eb3655455b982/tumblr_inline_nupjwtt76r1rzvgly_540.jpg" alt="tumblr_inline_nupjwtt76r1rzvgly_540.jpg"> 
Thus Spake Peak Engineering Leading The People?</blockquote>
 
Somewhere a tear is running down Wingers cheek.

Winger

This actually could make sense
 
If 50% or more vote to keep the current flag then its all over
 
If 50% or more vote to change then the winner in part B will compete against the current flag ina future referendum
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72064224/Andrew-Little-offers-olive-branch-to-John-Key-on-Red-Peak-flag'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72064224/Andrew-Little-offers-olive-branch-to-John-Key-on-Red-Peak-flag</a>
 
<img src="http://static.stuff.co.nz/files/Labourflagballot.jpg" alt="Labourflagballot.jpg">

taniwharugby

maybe they could manipulate it further, and just vote for which flag you like best, no 'no' vote, just line the 4 flags and the original up for the vote, with FPTP taking it out?
 
I think the process as it has been set out, is the best way to do it.

mariner4life

If they stick titties in the picture I'll vote for it

Virgil

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="515998" data-time="1442307117">If they stick titties in the picture I'll vote for it</blockquote>
 
DD's or EE's?

jegga

I think we all know the answer to that.

taniwharugby

you aren't fussy? :)

red terror

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="515971" data-time="1442299786">
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Well I drove past a bar that was flying the AB Silver Fern flag next to another countries. And it looked fucking bad ass. I'm sold.
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Flying one off my house. Looks awesome.
 
(Edit: Mine doesn't say ABs, just the same stylized fern-only on black. (Who knows...? Could be a counterfeit bootleg...))

jegga

And this is why I call them leftards, they couldn't even get the colours on the flag right 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://m.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/09/labours_flag_incompetence.html'>http://m.kiwiblog.co.nz/2015/09/labours_flag_incompetence.html</a> 
Or the voting system . Pathetic.

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="515990" data-time="1442305395">
<div>
This actually could make sense
 
If 50% or more vote to keep the current flag then its all over
 
If 50% or more vote to change then the winner in part B will compete against the current flag ina future referendum
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72064224/Andrew-Little-offers-olive-branch-to-John-Key-on-Red-Peak-flag'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/72064224/Andrew-Little-offers-olive-branch-to-John-Key-on-Red-Peak-flag</a>
 
<img src="http://static.stuff.co.nz/files/Labourflagballot.jpg" alt="Labourflagballot.jpg">
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No this is absolutely ridiculous. 70% of people could want a Silver Fern and be split on which fern. 30% could want Red Peak. Red Peak could win the referendum with 30% support and 70% against.

JC

And how would you weight the votes of someone who chose "Keep the existing NZ flag" in part A but also filled in a preference in part B? You could conceivably have a slight majority voting to keep the existing flag but a larger number voting for, say, Red Peak. Which part carries the mandate?
 
See this is why you need vexillologists on board.

Crucial

Vexing :think:

Winger

This is a good article
 
And agree with this. But both Labour and National need to move on from this childish points scoring. I'm surprised (as I haven't really been following things back home until the flag debate) just how bad it seems. Key is quite painful to watch in this regard but Little is even worse.
 
But a first starting point would be to accept in private that the process has been badly f++ked up including a truly inept consideration panel composition and decision. But also that the public now is more engaged and there is increasing clarity of what the 4 flags should include. Red Peak. And just a black and a professional designed white fern. And two other realistic but different option.
 
And that then good money need to be spend on promoting the 4 options. Hopefully this occurs otherwise a pissed off bored public will vote to retain the old flag. And NZ will miss a great opportunity.
 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/284285/better-to-wait-than-botch-it'>http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/284285/better-to-wait-than-botch-it</a>


<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
The paths to the Canadian maple leaf flag and multicolour South African flag took unexpected turns, and so has this one. Mr Key should show the flexibility he has on so many other issues and respond to events.
Mr Seymour's idea of giving New Zealanders the summer to think about it and argue over it - hopefully more civilly than has been evident over recent weeks - is one Mr Key should grab, to re-launch the process in the New Year, hopefully with a more constructive attitude from Labour. He'll need to speak to Bill English about a budget for public engagement that is more of Warehouse proportions than what has been spent so far.
To the extent Mr Key does want this to be his legacy, he doesn't have much time to fix things - but there is no doubt he had the fleet-footedness to do so.
 
</blockquote>

Donsteppa

If Red Peak ends up as the alternative, I'll have to shift from passively supporting the current flag to being very active about it. There are choices in the current four alternatives that I quite like - but unlike the 50,000 petitioners - the more I see of the red peak, the colder and colder it leaves me.

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="516301" data-time="1442396555">
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If Red Peak ends up as the alternative, I'll have to shift from passively supporting the current flag to being very active about it. There are choices in the current four alternatives that I quite like - but unlike the 50,000 petitioners - the more I see of the red peak, the colder and colder it leaves me.
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This is great. I would sooner Red Peak is not the winner in a lively interesting referendum - although I think it will be and we will end up with a 2 flag option (fern for sport) we can all be proud of - than we move forward to an inevitable, painful, boring, disappointing, the 4 flags are shit so keep the same flag, conclusion.

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="516305" data-time="1442398169">
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This is great. I would sooner Red Peak is not the winner in a lively interesting referendum - although I think it will be and we will end up with a 2 flag option (fern for sport) we can all be proud of - than we move forward to an inevitable, painful, boring, disappointing, the 4 flags are shit so keep the same flag, conclusion.
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RP is shit and doesnt deserve to be put in purely through pressure from social media, I like 1 of the 4 and will vote for it in the first part of the referendum, the other 3 are ok, but not what I'd choose, certainly better than RP, that said, I am still undecided where I will put my vote in the 2nd part of the refendum.

Rancid Schnitzel

Very small sample size, but everyone I've shown RP to has basically been "WTF is that?" Some agree that the back story is cool but still think the flag itself looks shit.
 
Take away Winger and the rabid John Key haters and I don't really see who would actually vote for the damn thing.

Rembrandt

Ive got 3 on my facebook that have changed their profile or mentioned RP...there may of course be more but I have a tendancy to turn off notifications from people that annoy me. Hard to gauge what the support really is.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="516322" data-time="1442408883">
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Very small sample size, but everyone I've shown RP to has basically been "WTF is that?" Some agree that the back story is cool but still think the flag itself looks shit.
 
Take away Winger and the rabid John Key haters and I don't really see who would actually vote for the damn thing.
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</blockquote>
 
Thats pretty much it in a nutshell, people misguided/foolish enough to think they are sticking it to John Key by pretending to like red peak should be excluded from our democratic processes for the greater good of NZ. There's pretty much the 50000 facebook likes gone and we are back to four again.

The Silver Fern

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