Flag
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<p>And how would you weight the votes of someone who chose "Keep the existing NZ flag" in part A but also filled in a preference in part B? You could conceivably have a slight majority voting to keep the existing flag but a larger number voting for, say, Red Peak. Which part carries the mandate?</p>
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<p>See this is why you need vexillologists on board.</p> -
<p>This is a good article</p>
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<p>And agree with this. But both Labour and National need to move on from this childish points scoring. I'm surprised (as I haven't really been following things back home until the flag debate) just how bad it seems. Key is quite painful to watch in this regard but Little is even worse.</p>
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<p>But a first starting point would be to accept in private that the process has been badly f++ked up including a truly inept consideration panel composition and decision. But also that the public now is more engaged and there is increasing clarity of what the 4 flags should include. Red Peak. And just a black and a professional designed white fern. And two other realistic but different option.</p>
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<p>And that then good money need to be spend on promoting the 4 options. Hopefully this occurs otherwise a pissed off bored public will vote to retain the old flag. And NZ will miss a great opportunity.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/284285/better-to-wait-than-botch-it'>http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/284285/better-to-wait-than-botch-it</a></p>
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<p>The paths to the Canadian maple leaf flag and multicolour South African flag took unexpected turns, and so has this one. Mr Key should show the flexibility he has on so many other issues and respond to events.</p>
<p>Mr Seymour's idea of giving New Zealanders the summer to think about it and argue over it - hopefully more civilly than has been evident over recent weeks - is one Mr Key should grab, to re-launch the process in the New Year, hopefully with a more constructive attitude from Labour. He'll need to speak to Bill English about a budget for public engagement that is more of Warehouse proportions than what has been spent so far.</p>
<p>To the extent Mr Key does want this to be his legacy, he doesn't have much time to fix things - but there is no doubt he had the fleet-footedness to do so.</p>
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<p>If Red Peak ends up as the alternative, I'll have to shift from passively supporting the current flag to being very active about it. There are choices in the current four alternatives that I quite like - but unlike the 50,000 petitioners - the more I see of the red peak, the colder and colder it leaves me.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="516301" data-time="1442396555">
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<p>If Red Peak ends up as the alternative, I'll have to shift from passively supporting the current flag to being very active about it. There are choices in the current four alternatives that I quite like - but unlike the 50,000 petitioners - the more I see of the red peak, the colder and colder it leaves me.</p>
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<p>This is great. I would sooner Red Peak is not the winner in a lively interesting referendum - although I think it will be and we will end up with a 2 flag option (fern for sport) we can all be proud of - than we move forward to an inevitable, painful, boring, disappointing, the 4 flags are shit so keep the same flag, conclusion.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="516305" data-time="1442398169">
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<p>This is great. I would sooner Red Peak is not the winner in a lively interesting referendum - although I think it will be and we will end up with a 2 flag option (fern for sport) we can all be proud of - than we move forward to an inevitable, painful, boring, disappointing, the 4 flags are shit so keep the same flag, conclusion.</p>
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<p>RP is shit and doesnt deserve to be put in purely through pressure from social media, I like 1 of the 4 and will vote for it in the first part of the referendum, the other 3 are ok, but not what I'd choose, certainly better than RP, that said, I am still undecided where I will put my vote in the 2nd part of the refendum.</p> -
<p>Very small sample size, but everyone I've shown RP to has basically been "WTF is that?" Some agree that the back story is cool but still think the flag itself looks shit.</p>
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<p>Take away Winger and the rabid John Key haters and I don't really see who would actually vote for the damn thing.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="516322" data-time="1442408883">
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<p>Very small sample size, but everyone I've shown RP to has basically been "WTF is that?" Some agree that the back story is cool but still think the flag itself looks shit.</p>
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<p>Take away Winger and the rabid John Key haters and I don't really see who would actually vote for the damn thing.</p>
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<p>Thats pretty much it in a nutshell, people misguided/foolish enough to think they are sticking it to John Key by pretending to like red peak should be excluded from our democratic processes for the greater good of NZ. There's pretty much the 50000 facebook likes gone and we are back to four again. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="515962" data-time="1442297191">
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.change.org/p/prime-minister-john-key-red-peaks-for-new-zealand-flag'>https://www.change.org/p/prime-minister-john-key-red-peaks-for-new-zealand-flag</a></p>
<p>Just hit 50,000</p>
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<p>So about half as popular as an obscure ABC drama cancelled for poor ratings?</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-warner-brothers-fans-love-the-tv-show-forever'>https://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-warner-brothers-fans-love-the-tv-show-forever</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="516305" data-time="1442398169"><p>
This is great. I would sooner Red Peak is not the winner in a lively interesting referendum - although I think it will be and we will end up with a 2 flag option (fern for sport) we can all be proud of - than we move forward to an inevitable, painful, boring, disappointing, the 4 flags are shit so keep the same flag, conclusion.</p></blockquote>
No it's not great... <br><br>
Of all the things I'd like to put 'lively interesting' energy into, defending the process of a flag referendum isn't it. <br><br>
However, while I like the current flag and would retain it, at least the current four options - even the one I dislike the most - have some sense of Kiwiana/NZ about them that I can relate to. <br><br>
Not only does the red peak have no instant familiarity to it, it has 50,000 people out of 4.6 million (probably 3.2 million-ish of voting age) trying to change the long signalled process at the last minute. A proportion of whom undoubtedly are doing so for political reasons. <br><br>
Of all the things peoeple could put energy into - resisting a rabid minority trying to change flag referndum process - is surely way down the list... -
<p>Politics aside Don I am not adverse to having a flag which lacks overt signs of kiwiana on it. The RP flag does combine elements of our old flag and the maori flag in terms of the colouration and the blue white and red bit looks a little like the corner of the Union Jack if you use a little imagination. I did like it after hearing the story, and if it wasn't for the fact that the designer appears to have plagiarised the corporate logo of Peak Engineering I think I would have grown to like it even more</p>
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<p>That's the problem with it. It doesn't just look like a corporate logo, it <em>is</em> a coporate logo. Massive deal breaker!</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="516395" data-time="1442449801">
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<p>I could handle the lack of Kiwiana/NZ instant familiarty if it didn't look like a corporate logo :)</p>
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<p>Look like a corporate logo or is a corporate logo?</p>
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<p>And I made the mistake of watching 'Story' on TV3 the other night.. and they wanked on and on and on about how great Red Peak was, they even had the disigner on screen saying that it was better as it didnt look like a brand or logo... this was after it was shown to be an actual corporate logo. The presenters didnt even mention that fact....</p> -
<p>John Campbells legacy lives on, on TV3.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="516398" data-time="1442450825">
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<p>That's the problem with it. It doesn't just look like a corporate logo, it <em>is</em> a coporate logo. Massive deal breaker!</p>
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<p>I thought it was ok - or at least I preferred it to the four current selections.. but then we found out it was pretty much identical to an existing logo. Fail.</p> -
<p>wonder if Peak Engineering are waiting (hoping) for it to be selected as the NZ flag and then gonna sue?</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="516407" data-time="1442453783">
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<p>wonder if Peak Engineering are waiting (hoping) for it to be selected as the NZ flag and then gonna sue?</p>
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<p>Who knows, could lead to a few more hits on their website!!</p>
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<p>Heya, do you folks build hobbit homes by any chance??</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="516407" data-time="1442453783">
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<p>wonder if Peak Engineering are waiting (hoping) for it to be selected as the NZ flag and then gonna sue?</p>
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<p>Nah, they're going to go into the royalties business</p>
