Flag

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="516395" data-time="1442449801">
<div>
I could handle the lack of Kiwiana/NZ instant familiarty if it didn't look like a corporate logo :)
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Look like a corporate logo or is a corporate logo?
 
And I made the mistake of watching 'Story' on TV3 the other night.. and they wanked on and on and on about how great Red Peak was, they even had the disigner on screen saying that it was better as it didnt look like a brand or logo... this was after it was shown to be an actual corporate logo. The presenters didnt even mention that fact....

taniwharugby

John Campbells legacy lives on, on TV3.

Paekakboyz

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="516398" data-time="1442450825">
<div>
That's the problem with it. It doesn't just look like a corporate logo, it is a coporate logo. Massive deal breaker!
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I thought it was ok - or at least I preferred it to the four current selections.. but then we found out it was pretty much identical to an existing logo. Fail.

taniwharugby

wonder if Peak Engineering are waiting (hoping) for it to be selected as the NZ flag and then gonna sue?

Paekakboyz

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="516407" data-time="1442453783">
<div>
wonder if Peak Engineering are waiting (hoping) for it to be selected as the NZ flag and then gonna sue?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Who knows, could lead to a few more hits on their website!!
 
Heya, do you folks build hobbit homes by any chance??

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="516407" data-time="1442453783">
<div>
wonder if Peak Engineering are waiting (hoping) for it to be selected as the NZ flag and then gonna sue?
</div>
</blockquote>
Nah, they're going to go into the royalties business

No Quarter

I honestly can't understand why Labour is pushing the Yes/No vote to be part of the first referendum. That just makes no sense. You can't vote for change if you don't know what you are changing too.
 
It's like someone coming up to me and saying "do you want to change your Galaxy Note 3 to another phone?" my immediate questions is "maybe... what phone?". Not me saying "yes" and then they give me one of those shitty old Nokia's from the 90s.

taniwharugby

plus, like JC points out above, if you include 2 questions, do you exclude all those who say no to a change from an opinion on which flag they would choose if it is changed, I mean if they don't want it changed, then they don't care for any of the 4 options.
 
If you have the Yes/No straight off, people are less likely to think really engage and think about it if they have the current flag vs, um, a new one that hasn't yet been decided, plus all the conspiracy theorists would be out in force claiming that if you vote yes we'll get some flag Key has selected and you wont get a choice at all.

canefan

The only way to go is to have a vote for a winner out of the new potential flags then have a head to head with the existing flag and the winner of the primary

Winger

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="516398" data-time="1442450825">
<div>
That's the problem with it. It doesn't just look like a corporate logo, it is a coporate logo. Massive deal breaker!
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Only for people who don't want to change. Or prefer one of the other flags
 
Because you could search the world and always find a logo or part of a logo that is similar to a flag design. Maybe not the awful one though as no company would want them
 
Take the adobe logo for example
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.adobe.com/uk/#'>http://www.adobe.com/uk/#</a>
or peak
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://peakengineeringdesign.com/overview/'>http://peakengineeringdesign.com/overview/</a>
 
The key is the total logo is very different.
 
Peak would have no chance of suing and winning. Nil.
 
google chrome logo
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.google.com/search?q=google+chrome+logo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8'>https://www.google.com/search?q=google+chrome+logo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8</a>
 
Microsoft
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+logo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8'>https://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+logo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8</a>

red terror

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="516429" data-time="1442465765">
<div>
The key is the total logo is very different.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I was going to post the below in the "What Are You Listening To" thread, then read the above and decided it was more appropriate here.

Great song,.

Unco

I think the Red Peak flag is shit but bringing up Peak Engineering as if it's a blatant copy is silly. It's not like either of them are some revolutionary new design, chevron's have been used in emblems and flags for thousands of years. Maybe the Greeks should sue both designers.
 
I'm not a fan of the current flag at all but all the alternatives seem pretty weak to me and it's annoying that we're probably going to see this debate put back another decade because of the bad choices the government have made regarding it. The Koru's the only one I actually like of the four but I realise that's not going to win with your typical white NZer. The other three seem too flashy and over designed (plus the fern designs are terrible), not the simple, iconic flag we'd want representing our country. Should've just gone with a typical black flag and white fern. Who gives a shit about ISIS, in ten years they'll (hopefully) be nothing more than a bad memory.

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="516434" data-time="1442467063">
<div>
I think the Red Peak flag is shit but bringing up Peak Engineering as if it's a blatant copy is silly. It's not like either of them are some revolutionary new design, chevron's have been used in emblems and flags for thousands of years. Maybe the Greeks should sue both designers.
 
I'm not a fan of the current flag at all but all the alternatives seem pretty weak to me and it's annoying that we're probably going to see this debate put back another decade because of the bad choices the government have made regarding it. The Koru's the only one I actually like of the four but I realise that's not going to win with your typical white NZer. The other three seem too flashy and over designed (plus the fern designs are terrible), not the simple, iconic flag we'd want representing our country. Should've just gone with a typical black flag and white fern. Who gives a shit about ISIS, in ten years they'll (hopefully) be nothing more than a bad memory.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Bad choices the govt have made? Like what? The only poor choices I have seen are from opposition parties and individuals who want to whinge and bitch from the sidelines and look for ANY excuse to do so.
I am over this petty narrative that the govt has somehow botched the process, which holds up to zero scrutiny. The process is hassle because we are bombarded with the views of a negative vocal minority. That would have happened regardless of the process,.... because John Key is PM and some cannot handle that.

Winger

By the way I stumbled across this
 
<img src="https://groups.google.com/a/googleproductforums.com/group/chrome/attach/213e8c026c8e44b5/de-google-chrome-666-2d326bd.jpg?part=0.1&authuser=0&view=1" alt="de-google-chrome-666-2d326bd.jpg?part=0.">Some Some people have far too much time on their hands (including me at present)
 
Although re the Red Peak
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Providence</a>

Baron Silas Greenback

Amazing.....

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="516429" data-time="1442465765">
<div>
 
The key is the total logo is very different.
 
Peak would have no chance of suing and winning. Nil.
 
</div>
</blockquote>
So along with Vexology, being an Economist, you are now a Lawyer?
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="516434" data-time="1442467063">
<div>
I think the Red Peak flag is shit but bringing up Peak Engineering as if it's a blatant copy is silly.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
It was a tongue in cheek comment...guess not having the smilie didnt help.

MajorRage

I have to admit that i'm coming around to theory that the wrong flags are on the referendum. 
 
The black and white fern should be on there.

Winger

Garage Project brewery producing Red Peak beer
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/72184848/garage-project-brewery-producing-red-peak-beer'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/72184848/garage-project-brewery-producing-red-peak-beer</a>
 
 
<img src="http://www.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/6/z/6/6/j/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.620x349.16z66o.png/1442544418541.jpg" alt="1442544418541.jpg">
 
Garage Project had brewed beer in the past using hot volcanic rocks to flash caramelise beer using an ancient technique and that was something they were keen to try again as a nod to New Zealand's volcanic landscape, he said.
"We'll definitely be looking to incorporate an element of that."
Native horopito bush pepper and kawakawa had been used in past Garage Project beers, which could also be incorporated into Red Peak, he said.
"There's potentially some really interesting things we could do around an additional New Zealand spice or flavour."
He said they would also try get an element of ice or snow into the mix.
The beer would probably be a red ale or red based beer, he said.
Red Peak would be brewed in either a 1000 litre or 2500 litre tank and sold in 650ml bottles to begin with and maybe cans later.
"We've already had a number of calls from our retail partners and shops and bars asking when they can get it."
Like many Garage Project beers It was not known how long Red Peak would stick around for.
"We'll just go into this with open minds and see what the response is."
The Red Peak beer concept had proven popular on Facebook, with a photo of it attracting more than 700 likes and being shared nearly 150 times.
Wellington man Robb Watson immediately took advantage of a great pun opportunity in commenting on the post.
"Bottles? Shouldn't this design be on a...flagon?"

jegga

Hipster beer wankery with a bad pun at the end . Not really helping the cause I think

Winger

Grant McLachlan: The flag process is not New Zealand Idol
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11514705'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11514705</a>
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Steven Joyce's former private secretary should never have been selected as the senior advisor to the panel. The Director of the New Zealand Flag Project, Kylie Archer, also has a CV that raises too many questions. Were John Key's public statements during the process the result of information leaked from panel meetings?
 
Celebrity is not a substitute for expertise. Matt Holmes, the Nike designer formerly from Fisher & Paykel, has no experience or skills relevant to flag design (vexillology). In fact, none of the advisory group did.
 
For a national flag, the advisory group should have drawn on the expertise of several vexillologists. Fiji did.
Two leading vexillologists told me that they offered the government advice but were turned away. Several at the recent world congress of vexillologists shared similar stories.
 
What we've seen are celebrity panel members choosing celebrity advisors selecting celebrity designers' designs.
Of the 10,000+ entries, it seems more than a coincidence that Kyle Lockwood, Sven Baker, Andrew Fyfe, Otis Frizell and Alofi Kanter all had multiple designs that made the long-list of 40. Considering that Sven Baker's designs were so different - and most were of little national resonance - perceived bias is an obvious concern.
To avoid any perceived bias, the names of designers should have been hidden from those assessing designs. Wine and food judging applies the same principle.
 
Judging an idea based on the designer rather than the quality of its content is an affront to our egalitarian heritage and has no place in the process to decide a national flag. Steven Joyce has attacked me rather than the facts I've raised , which demonstrates my point.
 
When so much celebrity was used, it reminds me of a magician's use of a beautiful assistant as a diversion. When Bill English said that social media had a huge role, were the panel a diversion? Were the results pre-determined? Was the koru flag design in the final four, as Mike Hosking suggested, "A sop?"
 
Everything the National Party has done around the flag debate is dodgy. Since Lewis Holden took over the "Change the Flag" campaign after Lloyd Morrison's death, he became a National Party candidate for Rimutaka and guided his campaign away from Lloyd's preference for a silver fern on a black background and towards Kyle Lockwood's designs - which coincides with John Key and David Farrar's positioning.
 
</blockquote>


<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
The Secretary of the Flag Consideration Panel stalled the release of information I requested under the Official Information Act until after the date that the referendum is announced. I have therefore lodged a complaint with the Ombudsman.
I could apply for an injunction on the referendum until I have the information requested. I could then apply for a judicial review, which could delay the referendum for a year.
There is nothing wrong with the flag legislation. The Flag Consideration Panel were just an advisory body and it is the Executive who chose the four designs for the first referendum and the dates of the two referenda.
The cross-party flag committee appointed the panel but it was their methods that created this mess. The committee can call for a board of inquiry of judges and vexillologists to clean it up.
What they should do is start the assessment process again, call for submissions on the existing submitted designs, and assess all designs properly and objectively.
Any other 'solution' won't work. Simply asking a QC for a legal opinion reeks of whitewash. Adding a design to the referendum reeks of political interference.
In the meantime, the first referendum should be delayed until March. Considering that most polls show that none of the final four designs are good enough to defeat the current flag, National's pollster shouldn't object to that.
 
</blockquote>
 
 
And some of the rejected flags were 1st rate
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/08/11/dear-new-zealand-please-reconsider-these-9-rejected-flag-designs/'>https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/08/11/dear-new-zealand-please-reconsider-these-9-rejected-flag-designs/</a>

The Silver Fern

Flag