Woo
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Just further to the above ...
The article goes on:
He said 5 per cent of the country would hate him - referring to anti-vaxxers as a "bunch of haters and wreckers and scaremongers that are out there causing harm".
So 95% likely support it? Sounds popular to me!
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Lance O’Sullivan says what we all think...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264246
New Zealand's leaders needed to make decisions that were "bold and courageous and sometimes not always that popular", he said.
Why wouldn't it be popular? It's only a shrieking minority that won't like it.
Shrieking minority? Freedom of decisions without govt interference? Seems there are some conflictions there.
But he is correct. Govts need to be very strong to push through this kind of law.
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Lance O’Sullivan says what we all think...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264246
New Zealand's leaders needed to make decisions that were "bold and courageous and sometimes not always that popular", he said.
Why wouldn't it be popular? It's only a shrieking minority that won't like it.
Shrieking minority? Freedom of decisions without govt interference? Seems there are some conflictions there.
But he is correct. Govts need to be very strong to push through this kind of law.
Sorry am missing your point.
Who said anything about freedom from government interference?
(And by the way name pretty much any activity that is free from government interference.)
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Lance O’Sullivan says what we all think...
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264246
New Zealand's leaders needed to make decisions that were "bold and courageous and sometimes not always that popular", he said.
Why wouldn't it be popular? It's only a shrieking minority that won't like it.
Shrieking minority? Freedom of decisions without govt interference? Seems there are some conflictions there.
But he is correct. Govts need to be very strong to push through this kind of law.
Sorry am missing your point.
Who said anything about freedom from government interference?
(And by the way name pretty much any activity that is free from government interference.)
I was being facetious. Ignore. Don't want this heading to the Politics forum
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@Crucial Recognised your point (and that it was tongue in cheek).
From my point of view personal freedoms that carry consequences for the greater good should come under government mandate. Transmitting preventable communicable diseases to the general populace fall into that category, and probably some already criminal ones. Deliberately using infected blood as a weapon was a thing when AIDS was discovered and considered an offence I believe.
I was in Hong Kong for bird flu, swine flu and SARS. Public health issues aren't "personal" "freedoms" they effect everybody and have to have government control.
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@Snowy especially when population density adds more risk around managing this sort of stuff.
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@Paekakboyz Yep. My wife used to write for Hong Kong Uni and interviewed professors about the work they did on viruses, diseases, etc.
Epidemics in Southern China are pretty common due to the population density and they traced some larger historical ones back to the region (I just can't remember which...) -
I wonder if there are any organisations out there that make a concerted effort to challenge these Anti-vax folk online? When you start going down the anti-vax rabbit hole you see they quote an awful amount of studies to back up their opinions, would take a lot of time to go through and systematically debunk everything they push out and an employed person will struggle timewise against an unemployed conspiracy theorist or a stay-at-home vegan soccer mum.
They'd need to be independent from the government and would have to adhere to strict guidelines to only print what is verified peer-reviewed true even if this may mean granting some concessions to opposition thought while still providing an alternative interpretation. They'd also have to treat the anti-vax crowd with a bit of compassion, treat them as well-intentioned good people who have just been duped by some bad information out there. Maybe set up a website as a resource with quick links to debunk each anti-vax study or train of thought, other passionate folk could then also use this as a good resource for fighting back against friends and loved ones going down the anti-vax route.
Dunno if it would work but I'd certainly donate to something like that.
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seen alot online about allowing Pharmacists to vaccinate, think it is a good idea as I reckon they would be in a better position to get to a wider range of people than a Dr.
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@taniwharugby said in Woo:
seen alot online about allowing Pharmacists to vaccinate, think it is a good idea as I reckon they would be in a better position to get to a wider range of people than a Dr.
They can give flu shots but not mmr which seems odd to me .
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@Paekakboyz Yep. My wife used to write for Hong Kong Uni and interviewed professors about the work they did on viruses, diseases, etc.
Epidemics in Southern China are pretty common due to the population density and they traced some larger historical ones back to the region (I just can't remember which...)In the same way the Great Plague was population density, poor hygiene and close proximity to animals. Filthy rats.
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@antipodean said in Woo:
@Paekakboyz Yep. My wife used to write for Hong Kong Uni and interviewed professors about the work they did on viruses, diseases, etc.
Epidemics in Southern China are pretty common due to the population density and they traced some larger historical ones back to the region (I just can't remember which...)In the same way the Great Plague was population density, poor hygiene and close proximity to animals. Filthy rats.
Which is why it’s making a comeback in LA
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These are the types of people who are most likely to pay the price for other anti-vaxxers' folly
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12264397
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@Rembrandt said in Woo:
I wonder if there are any organisations out there that make a concerted effort to challenge these Anti-vax folk online? When you start going down the anti-vax rabbit hole you see they quote an awful amount of studies to back up their opinions, would take a lot of time to go through and systematically debunk everything they push out and an employed person will struggle timewise against an unemployed conspiracy theorist or a stay-at-home vegan soccer mum.
They'd need to be independent from the government and would have to adhere to strict guidelines to only print what is verified peer-reviewed true even if this may mean granting some concessions to opposition thought while still providing an alternative interpretation. They'd also have to treat the anti-vax crowd with a bit of compassion, treat them as well-intentioned good people who have just been duped by some bad information out there. Maybe set up a website as a resource with quick links to debunk each anti-vax study or train of thought, other passionate folk could then also use this as a good resource for fighting back against friends and loved ones going down the anti-vax route.
Dunno if it would work but I'd certainly donate to something like that.
Not exactly on your point, but it's harder to debunk this junk than you might think. For a start there are some things that have been considered axiomatic since before the internet age, such as the fact that vaccination is a good thing, so that most of the literature that supports that fact is in dry, hard-copy journals that haven't seen the light of day for 50 years. Trying to compete against "evidence" that was manufactured 6 months ago for the sole purpose of fostering the prejudices of the authors by using scholarly journal articles that have never been seen outside a med school library is an almost impossible task. It's as futile as trying to argue against a mob of 15 year old girls that Mozart had more talent than BTS.
Secondly, the medical studies that support vaccination use exactingly granular evidence and jargon (because it has had to pass peer review) such that your average Facebook expert can't easily follow it. Compare that with the fraudulent website with interesting soundbites and multiple links that were posted earlier. The truth just can't compete for impact. It has been formulated in the expectation that its audience is reasonable and has a baseline level of knowledge sufficient to enable accurate understanding. That's not a realistic expectation of many people.
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@JC plus the harder you push against someones belief in X the more they resist (in general terms). Which is why the (made up) anecdotal stories shared on social media piss all over actual evidence and hard data for so many of these folks.
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While obviously she's the expert but to claim the pro disease crowd is not the problem is not 100% right and also in a bit silly considering the way anti vaxxers live in an alternate reality you can guarantee the pro disease crowd are going to twist her words and amongst other things use it as evidence that vaccines don't work. Are anti vaxxers the problem?
Somali community has measles outbreak due to myths spread by anti vaxxers https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/08/24/measles-vaccinated-somali-american-children-up-more-outbreak
Polios making a comeback due to anti vaxxers https://aeon.co/essays/how-anti-vaxxers-fuel-the-spread-of-polio
4 diseases making a comeback due to the pro disease crowd https://time.com/27308/4-diseases-making-a-comeback-thanks-to-anti-vaxxers/
Also anti vaxxers like to harass the parents of dead kids https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/19/health/anti-vax-harassment-eprise/index.html
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@jegga I guess the point she is trying to make is that the health ministry dropped the ball to a degree by not being proactive enough about making sure immunizations were done
One look at that headline is going to lead to about 10000 facebook posts along the lines of "see? I told you so, vaccines don't really work". She should have worded what she said better to avoid it being twisted to suit the lunatic agenda .
LA County Department of Public Health
