RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B)
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@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Watched the game again , that helter skelter looking start from us ,
Although it looked messy, is there a definitive ploy to move the game away from structure where most of our rivals are more comfortable, and deliberately make it more chaotic to take them out of their comfort zones.
Mr Dry Powder says hi.
Great how we just turn the jets on for 20 minutes or so, just to give the opposition a taste of the powder, then put it away again
They appear as landed gentlemen enjoying a distracted Saturday afternoon cruise around the country estate in their Jaguar limousine, inspired by the pattern set by the Crusaders a decade or so ago; taking the purring prize up to top speed for a couple of sparkling five pointers just before pulling in for tea and scones, and coming out shortly after to put on some exhibition rugby for the second half.
I enjoy the comparison I can draw with Gary Whetton's All Blacks, who used burst onto the field as if in their growling GTHO Phase 3, cranking it out to 7,000 revs and leaving it there, monstering the opposition, being profligate with the powder and showing no mercy right from the jump.
I do wonder at times what Sir Steve puts before them as a challenge - with an 87% success rate their greatest threat is from within. It would be so easy to put together a couple of shockers and find themselves sliding backwards towards the other lot at 65 to 70%. They would surely struggle with the psychological impact of entering such foreign territory.
Ardie Savea impressed me again last night, a ton of energy and on the ball all the while, playing as if his life depends on it.
I'm still getting used to how they have redesigned the positions around Ardie and Sam Cane; and quite differently to the role of the bigger Jerome, Vito and Liam Messam.
@Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD Ardie made 3 or 4 crucial turnovers, and when he runs with ball in hand it looks like man vs boys sometimes
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@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@kiwiinmelb said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Watched the game again , that helter skelter looking start from us ,
Although it looked messy, is there a definitive ploy to move the game away from structure where most of our rivals are more comfortable, and deliberately make it more chaotic to take them out of their comfort zones.
Mr Dry Powder says hi.
Great how we just turn the jets on for 20 minutes or so, just to give the opposition a taste of the powder, then put it away again
They appear as landed gentlemen enjoying a distracted Saturday afternoon cruise around the country estate in their Jaguar limousine, inspired by the pattern set by the Crusaders a decade or so ago; taking the purring prize up to top speed for a couple of sparkling five pointers just before pulling in for tea and scones, and coming out shortly after to put on some exhibition rugby for the second half.
I enjoy the comparison I can draw with Gary Whetton's All Blacks, who used burst onto the field as if in their growling GTHO Phase 3, cranking it out to 7,000 revs and leaving it there, monstering the opposition, being profligate with the powder and showing no mercy right from the jump.
I do wonder at times what Sir Steve puts before them as a challenge - with an 87% success rate their greatest threat is from within. It would be so easy to put together a couple of shockers and find themselves sliding backwards towards the other lot at 65 to 70%. They would surely struggle with the psychological impact of entering such foreign territory.
Ardie Savea impressed me again last night, a ton of energy and on the ball all the while, playing as if his life depends on it.
I'm still getting used to how they have redesigned the positions around Ardie and Sam Cane; and quite differently to the role of the bigger Jerome, Vito and Liam Messam.
@Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I'm still getting used to how they have redesigned the positions around Ardie and Sam Cane; and quite differently to the role of the bigger Jerome, Vito and Liam Messam.
Sam Cane gets thru a power of unsung work. Taking nothing way from Ardie, but Cane is just as key a player for me.
The current 6-7-8 could really develop into something special
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@Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I'm still getting used to how they have redesigned the positions around Ardie and Sam Cane; and quite differently to the role of the bigger Jerome, Vito and Liam Messam.
Sam Cane gets thru a power of unsung work. Taking nothing way from Ardie, but Cane is just as key a player for me.
The current 6-7-8 could really develop into something special
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Mick-Gold-Coast-QLD said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I'm still getting used to how they have redesigned the positions around Ardie and Sam Cane; and quite differently to the role of the bigger Jerome, Vito and Liam Messam.
Sam Cane gets thru a power of unsung work. Taking nothing way from Ardie, but Cane is just as key a player for me.
The current 6-7-8 could really develop into something special
Oh yeah, for sure. I don't think it was a coincidence that when he went off we lost control of the gain line and breakdown
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@Darren said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
First time I think I’ve seen our scrum dominate the boks. Massive effort.
Can't say I agree. Felt the Boks were on top in most scrums and Moody was fairly lucky not to get penalised in the first two scrums. Not convinced about Angus. Ofa is a better tighthead than a loosehead so they would have been better off selecting him as the reserve tighthead imo and picking big Karl as the reserve loosehead.
@akan004 said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Can't say I agree. Felt the Boks were on top in most scrums and Moody was fairly lucky not to get penalised in the first two scrums.
I was surprised when Moody wasn't penalised there as he clearly had his hand on the ground.
The biggest challenge for the scrum will be against NH opposition as they aren't as familiar and the technique can be different.
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@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Just watching the highlights on Fox.
Definitely got the impression Faeces signalled it against Sam.
And there was absolutely no contact initiated by the ABs. Pat T was lifting in front of SW and the Boks dropped their jumper on him.
Back to being a bullshit decision.
Refer to my caveat about Garces. But it probably did give him the impression that there was some form of contact in the air when there wasn't.
I see that the official penalty count was 9-4 not 10/11-2 as Rassie was saying.
@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Just watching the highlights on Fox.
Definitely got the impression Faeces signalled it against Sam.
And there was absolutely no contact initiated by the ABs. Pat T was lifting in front of SW and the Boks dropped their jumper on him.
Back to being a bullshit decision.
Refer to my caveat about Garces. But it probably did give him the impression that there was some form of contact in the air when there wasn't.
I see that the official penalty count was 9-4 not 10/11-2 as Rassie was saying.
2 of the 4 penalties against NZ were horseshit tbh. The Faf milk on Laulala and the Whitelock lineout penalty.
Great discipline by NZ actually.
Were lucky on the Vermeulen attempt TO, though, usually that goes with the latcher. Was also a strange 1 minute period of ruck free for all late in second half we were lucky in. Nothing else really. Maybe 2 x Moody hand down in scrum, although 1 of those could gave gone nz way anyway due to Malherbe's bind on Moody arm IIRC.
Really was excellent discipline.
I thought SAF were unlucky on 2 knockon calls actually.
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@akan004 said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Can't say I agree. Felt the Boks were on top in most scrums and Moody was fairly lucky not to get penalised in the first two scrums.
I was surprised when Moody wasn't penalised there as he clearly had his hand on the ground.
The biggest challenge for the scrum will be against NH opposition as they aren't as familiar and the technique can be different.
@Bovidae I think as the ball got to the back Garces wanted the scrum to be over rather than reset, given when he dropped it there was zero impact on the scrum and made sense to let it go.
Couple of overheads you could see Kitsoff boring in, but they were let go too.
I prefer that than endless resets we get sometimes.
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@Bovidae said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@booboo said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Just watching the highlights on Fox.
Definitely got the impression Faeces signalled it against Sam.
And there was absolutely no contact initiated by the ABs. Pat T was lifting in front of SW and the Boks dropped their jumper on him.
Back to being a bullshit decision.
Refer to my caveat about Garces. But it probably did give him the impression that there was some form of contact in the air when there wasn't.
I see that the official penalty count was 9-4 not 10/11-2 as Rassie was saying.
2 of the 4 penalties against NZ were horseshit tbh. The Faf milk on Laulala and the Whitelock lineout penalty.
Great discipline by NZ actually.
Were lucky on the Vermeulen attempt TO, though, usually that goes with the latcher. Was also a strange 1 minute period of ruck free for all late in second half we were lucky in. Nothing else really. Maybe 2 x Moody hand down in scrum, although 1 of those could gave gone nz way anyway due to Malherbe's bind on Moody arm IIRC.
Really was excellent discipline.
I thought SAF were unlucky on 2 knockon calls actually.
@Rapido although a couple of forward passes they got away with made up...one was on one of Colbys electric runs...think was the last few mins they were over the ball for an age and didnt get it.
I know it's hard to look with both eyes open at the time but I think both teams can feel aggrieved/lucky with some calls.
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@Damo same principle - and if memory serves, no more rucks were formed in a way that puts steph du toit offside.
@NTA said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Damo same principle - and if memory serves, no more rucks were formed in a way that puts steph du toit offside.
I think there was a ruck formed prior to the pass which was intercepted.
I am agnostic as to whether it was offside or not. I reckon an AB may have ran 5m with the ball and/or we had reached the advantage line prior to the intercept. SDT was retreating. It looked really bad, but ref might have been right to let it go.
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I see some are having a moan about the 'disrespect' shown during the Haka by opposition fans.
Fark some people are so precious they need to pull their farking heads in.
It is sport, fans can react how they like.
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I see some are having a moan about the 'disrespect' shown during the Haka by opposition fans.
Fark some people are so precious they need to pull their farking heads in.
It is sport, fans can react how they like.
@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I see some are having a moan about the 'disrespect' shown during the Haka by opposition fans.
Fark some people are so precious they need to pull their farking heads in.
It is sport, fans can react how they like.
Spot on. You can say you find it disrespectful, and ask people to do something, but it's up to them. LIke me booing kickers, I know some people find it disrespectful, but frankly I don't care
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@hydro11 said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Just read elsewhere the officials missed the clear knock on by Kolbe when he throws ball forward before going into touch, BB runs it out from goal line and subsequent play we pass it to the SA player in our backline. Should have been our advantage and back for knock on.
Disagree. Advantage should be over for a knock on if you make 15 metres which we did.
Does the 10 metre space gained within your goal line count? Surely discretion can be used, no way we got more advantage being trapped by our goal line. The advantage rules on attack at a tryline are huge compared to elsewhere. Maybe I’m getting confused between penalty advantage and knock on advantage.
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Maybe I’m getting confused between penalty advantage and knock on advantage.
You will search the Laws in vain for any difference. This is a fairly recent, made-up, distinction.
But I agree with Hydro that clear possession with a territory gain is definitely advantage. That one didn't bother me at all.
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@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I see some are having a moan about the 'disrespect' shown during the Haka by opposition fans.
Fark some people are so precious they need to pull their farking heads in.
It is sport, fans can react how they like.
Spot on. You can say you find it disrespectful, and ask people to do something, but it's up to them. LIke me booing kickers, I know some people find it disrespectful, but frankly I don't care
@nzzp said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I see some are having a moan about the 'disrespect' shown during the Haka by opposition fans.
Fark some people are so precious they need to pull their farking heads in.
It is sport, fans can react how they like.
Spot on. You can say you find it disrespectful, and ask people to do something, but it's up to them. LIke me booing kickers, I know some people find it disrespectful, but frankly I don't care
Same with the opposition team, they don't have to stand and watch the haka, they're just not allowed to close up. I'm more than happy, and I'm sure the ABs are, for them to practise or huddle.
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@Nepia too unco...scroll down
@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Nepia too unco...scroll down
It's now the second option, I 100% couldn't find it earlier. :man_facepalming_medium_skin_tone:
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Hi all,
It’s funny how some things never change, back in the fern for the first time in a long hiatus and all the usual suspects are still active... respect.
Anyhoo tough game and happy to have that out of the way with a win. South Africa were impressive, had arguably the wrong tactics in the first half when they had decent ball, but will happily take that.
Scott Barrett was immense early on and Ardie was a machine and George Bridge reminds me of a young Ben Smith/Cory Jane with his aerial nouse.
For any if the foreign media/coaches complaining about rough calls, clearly Garces missed a lot from both sides, we just converted more of the opportunities we had even with little early ball and am glad the debarkle surrounding Sam Cane HIA didn’t cost us.
Saying all that the Boks weren’t bad when they opened up and Kolbe had fricken spiders on him. If they actually decide to play attacking rugby, we may see them later in the comp.
Great win, still have work ons, which we want including our scum and line out. I know it was extravagant but would love to see them try the move with the throw to Reece again, if executed that would have really created gaps.
Lastly, I had the team leaked via a friend the night before, I called BS but for the first time ever this tip was spot on. It still could have been luck, but if correct they said Retallick could have played if required. Expect to see him back soon then.
Cheers all, thanks for the views, loving it sitting in an airport.
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@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Maybe I’m getting confused between penalty advantage and knock on advantage.
You will search the Laws in vain for any difference. This is a fairly recent, made-up, distinction.
But I agree with Hydro that clear possession with a territory gain is definitely advantage. That one didn't bother me at all.
@Chester-Draws said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@chimoaus said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
Maybe I’m getting confused between penalty advantage and knock on advantage.
You will search the Laws in vain for any difference. This is a fairly recent, made-up, distinction.
But I agree with Hydro that clear possession with a territory gain is definitely advantage. That one didn't bother me at all.
It certainly isn't a fairly recent distinction. It has been around a long time, certainly at least as old as when I had my first stint as a referee in 1999.
It makes perfect sense too. The advantage one gets from a PK offence should be more significant that that from a scrum offence because the restarts are so different. A PK allows a team to move up the field 30-40 metres and/or kick a goal.
A scrum merely allows possession.Advantage law gives a very wide discretion to the referee to decide. A good way of approximating advantage is to put yourself in the shoes of the captain and ask yourself whether - at that exact moment - he would prefer the current situation or to have the sanction offered. It isn't an exact science but this is one test to think about.
This particular one was clearly ok. It was tactical as well as territorial advantage. The AB's had good quality ball and freedom to use the ball as they wished. The fact they threw this away does not alter the fact that advantage had easily been achieved. Going back for the offence would have meant a defensive 5m scrum, 5m from touch.
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@Damo said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Siam said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Damo I wondered if the ALB tackle/ruck redefines an offside line making the interceptor a lazy runner, as he was coming back from the kolbe knock on.
Dunno, but it looked wrong
It looked wrong sure.
However a player can be put onside after a ruck by retreating to the line of the ruck, OR by a ball carrier running 5m with the ball. I didn't see it close enough to definitely say neither of those things happened.
Is this true?
That used to be the case back in the day eg Mike Brewer pinning Gav Hastings Auckland 1990, 10m circle etc.I thought that changed with 1992 law changes.
Has something changed again,
@Rapido said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Damo said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Siam said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
@Damo I wondered if the ALB tackle/ruck redefines an offside line making the interceptor a lazy runner, as he was coming back from the kolbe knock on.
Dunno, but it looked wrong
It looked wrong sure.
However a player can be put onside after a ruck by retreating to the line of the ruck, OR by a ball carrier running 5m with the ball. I didn't see it close enough to definitely say neither of those things happened.
Is this true?
That used to be the case back in the day eg Mike Brewer pinning Gav Hastings Auckland 1990, 10m circle etc.I thought that changed with 1992 law changes.
Has something changed again,
Yep it is true. Whether it should be or not is a good question.
The caveat is that the offside plyer must be retiring. He can't loiter, wait to be put onside and then get involved in play.
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Thought Bridge had a pretty ordinary game eh. A couple of nice touches but more ugly moments, including one where he seemed to almost be avoiding attempting to catch a kick. He really shouldn't be being beaten by a midget in the air.
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I see some are having a moan about the 'disrespect' shown during the Haka by opposition fans.
Fark some people are so precious they need to pull their farking heads in.
It is sport, fans can react how they like.
@taniwharugby said in RWC: All Blacks v South Africa (Pool B):
I see some are having a moan about the 'disrespect' shown during the Haka by opposition fans.
Fark some people are so precious they need to pull their farking heads in.
It is sport, fans can react how they like.
David Campese rarely stood with the team during the haka, often wandering back towards the goal posts with a ball tossing it about and kicking it while he waited.
No-one cared and I do not recall people remarking on it - this was, of course, in the olden days before people dressed up to take to the streets in search of offence, or evident advantage that just wasn't fair, or unacceptable and inappropriate inappropriateness, and reasons to threaten to neck themselves if you didn't care.
For mine the haka is part of a grand spectacle and the sports administrators are better off focusing on their job of giving the people good reason to turn up.
