Red cards
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For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
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For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
er, you answered it in your question....
just tackle lower
Sheesh
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I agree with what Barbarian said. Of course, players’ safety is important. And, of course, you have to discourage high tackles. But this overlooks the fact that the game is now faster and more intense than it once was; players are bigger and more aerobically fit; the hits are harder; and, most of all, the money involved is significantly greater. It’s now a truly professional sport, completely different to what existed as recently as the mid-90s. Sponsorships and broadcast rights and ticket prices and all the other costs are much higher. But World Rugby is still treating the professional code as it does the amateur one. You simply can’t expect consumers to put up with spending tens of thousands of dollars on flights, tickets and accommodation to games, only to destroy the entire spectacle with often random and highly technical decisions that turn games into no contests.
What we saw in the All Blacks-Namibian game this afternoon exemplifies the problem. A player dropping into a tackle leaves the defence in an impossible position. According to the letter of the law, there is contact to the head. But what other choice is there? It didn’t matter in this instance because it was a superpower against a minnow, but you can imagine the angst if this occurs in a knock-out game as I’m sure it will.
The answer is to sin-in players and cite them for a call-up to the judiciary. Let the game flow and ensure the people who’ve paid BIG bucks to attend get to see a fair match.
You can operate a different regime for the amateur code.
For now, it looks like World Rugby is using the world’s premier showcase as a social engineering opportunity.
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I’ve complained about this on Twitter, and had a few people respond ‘just tackle lower’.
But I’m not sure those people have ever played rugby. High tackles are just a part of the game, and I’m not sure you can ever eradicate them. Yes some are a result of reckless play, but others are just instinct (sticking out an arm when you’ve been stepped by a halfback near the ruck), or tiredness (being caught on the back foot in the late stages of a game).
I’m not sure how you eradicate that from the game. Especially for players above 6ft 6.
At the moment World Rugby have signalled they are happy to ruin games as a spectacle in order to change player behaviour. I think that’s too big a trade-off, and think they need to find a better balance between protecting the players and ensuring games are enjoyable for fans.
@barbarian The problem is the incentives at the administrator level. These people get paid whatever happens and they’re willing to have the paying public sacrificed. They have a stranglehold on the rights of the code and aren’t exposed to any market discipline.
I foresee an eventual consumer class action against World Rugby that takes a few of these superannuated mediocrities to the cleaners.
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I agree with what Barbarian said. Of course, players’ safety is important. And, of course, you have to discourage high tackles. But this overlooks the fact that the game is now faster and more intense than it once was; players are bigger and more aerobically fit; the hits are harder; and, most of all, the money involved is significantly greater. It’s now a truly professional sport, completely different to what existed as recently as the mid-90s. Sponsorships and broadcast rights and ticket prices and all the other costs are much higher. But World Rugby is still treating the professional code as it does the amateur one. You simply can’t expect consumers to put up with spending tens of thousands of dollars on flights, tickets and accommodation to games, only to destroy the entire spectacle with often random and highly technical decisions that turn games into no contests.
What we saw in the All Blacks-Namibian game this afternoon exemplifies the problem. A player dropping into a tackle leaves the defence in an impossible position. According to the letter of the law, there is contact to the head. But what other choice is there? It didn’t matter in this instance because it was a superpower against a minnow, but you can imagine the angst if this occurs in a knock-out game as I’m sure it will.
The answer is to sin-in players and cite them for a call-up to the judiciary. Let the game flow and ensure the people who’ve paid BIG bucks to attend get to see a fair match.
You can operate a different regime for the amateur code.
For now, it looks like World Rugby is using the world’s premier showcase as a social engineering opportunity.
@MrDenmore said in Red cards:
You simply can’t expect consumers to put up with spending tens of thousands of dollars on flights, tickets and accommodation to games, only to destroy the entire spectacle with often random and highly technical decisions that turn games into no contests.
That's international netball. We don't want it to ruin our game as well
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For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Ofa used the same technique that he uses all the time, only difference was the attacker lead with his head low to the ground. I believe these professional players tackle technique is likely a subconscious activity that happens the same nearly every time. To say he deliberately lead with an arm to the head of the opponent is unfair on those players.
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@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Ofa used the same technique that he uses all the time, only difference was the attacker lead with his head low to the ground. I believe these professional players tackle technique is likely a subconscious activity that happens the same nearly every time. To say he deliberately lead with an arm to the head of the opponent is unfair on those players.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Ofa used the same technique that he uses all the time, only difference was the attacker lead with his head low to the ground. I believe these professional players tackle technique is likely a subconscious activity that happens the same nearly every time. To say he deliberately lead with an arm to the head of the opponent is unfair on those players.
The Argie guy showed intent, you could see in his face he was out to hurt. Our boys didn't, but it is now a technical problem that everyone is racing to correct. Arms to be used for grappling only
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
I agree that is the less risky, but more passive option, which is where the 'tackling instinct ' obviously needs to revert.
But what if he was defending on his tryline in that scenario? Serious question.
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@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
I agree that is the less risky, but more passive option, which is where the 'tackling instinct ' obviously needs to revert.
But what if he was defending on his tryline in that scenario? Serious question.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
I agree that is the less risky, but more passive option, which is where the 'tackling instinct ' obviously needs to revert.
But what if he was defending on his tryline in that scenario? Serious question.
Then it would have been a penalty try.
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Bullshit Mike. You've played. In that spot you do the same thing.
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I’ve complained about this on Twitter, and had a few people respond ‘just tackle lower’.
But I’m not sure those people have ever played rugby. High tackles are just a part of the game, and I’m not sure you can ever eradicate them. Yes some are a result of reckless play, but others are just instinct (sticking out an arm when you’ve been stepped by a halfback near the ruck), or tiredness (being caught on the back foot in the late stages of a game).
I’m not sure how you eradicate that from the game. Especially for players above 6ft 6.
At the moment World Rugby have signalled they are happy to ruin games as a spectacle in order to change player behaviour. I think that’s too big a trade-off, and think they need to find a better balance between protecting the players and ensuring games are enjoyable for fans.
@barbarian said in Red cards:
I’ve complained about this on Twitter, and had a few people respond ‘just tackle lower’.
But I’m not sure those people have ever played rugby. High tackles are just a part of the game, and I’m not sure you can ever eradicate them. Yes some are a result of reckless play, but others are just instinct (sticking out an arm when you’ve been stepped by a halfback near the ruck), or tiredness (being caught on the back foot in the late stages of a game).
I’m not sure how you eradicate that from the game. Especially for players above 6ft 6.
At the moment World Rugby have signalled they are happy to ruin games as a spectacle in order to change player behaviour. I think that’s too big a trade-off, and think they need to find a better balance between protecting the players and ensuring games are enjoyable for fans.
This is probably the best post on this issue so far and clearly written from the practical perspective of someone who has played the game (presently or at least in the recent past by the look of things).
The objective is an entirely noble one, but the means adopted by WR go too far. You simply cannot treat a marginally high tackle, caused by a timing issue (e.g. a late, high speed change of angle) in the same way your treat out-and-out foul play.
It's just entirely unfair to the players, most importantly.
There will be a red card during one of the knockout games in this tournament and it will cost a team 4 years of hard work and maybe even some careers. How on earth is that fair punishment for a purely accidental, fractionally mis-timed tackle?
Edit: our only hope is that the unfortunate recipients of a red card in such a situation is England - only then will there be a sufficiently critical mass of whinging that WR will actually take a sensible approach to this issue.
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@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Bullshit Mike. You've played. In that spot you do the same thing.
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Bullshit Mike. You've played. In that spot you do the same thing.
Ah no.
Never got penalised for a late and/or high tackle. Or swinging arm.
Couple of instances in the France v Tonga match where the French players were happy for the Tongans to gain one, maybe two more metres going forward as they fell to the ground and then swooped in to try to steal the ball.
On the goal line you don't have the luxury of those metres but as explained on another thread better to not infringe, concede a try, but still be on the park than infringe and be binned.
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@barbarian said in Red cards:
I’ve complained about this on Twitter, and had a few people respond ‘just tackle lower’.
But I’m not sure those people have ever played rugby. High tackles are just a part of the game, and I’m not sure you can ever eradicate them. Yes some are a result of reckless play, but others are just instinct (sticking out an arm when you’ve been stepped by a halfback near the ruck), or tiredness (being caught on the back foot in the late stages of a game).
I’m not sure how you eradicate that from the game. Especially for players above 6ft 6.
At the moment World Rugby have signalled they are happy to ruin games as a spectacle in order to change player behaviour. I think that’s too big a trade-off, and think they need to find a better balance between protecting the players and ensuring games are enjoyable for fans.
This is probably the best post on this issue so far and clearly written from the practical perspective of someone who has played the game (presently or at least in the recent past by the look of things).
The objective is an entirely noble one, but the means adopted by WR go too far. You simply cannot treat a marginally high tackle, caused by a timing issue (e.g. a late, high speed change of angle) in the same way your treat out-and-out foul play.
It's just entirely unfair to the players, most importantly.
There will be a red card during one of the knockout games in this tournament and it will cost a team 4 years of hard work and maybe even some careers. How on earth is that fair punishment for a purely accidental, fractionally mis-timed tackle?
Edit: our only hope is that the unfortunate recipients of a red card in such a situation is England - only then will there be a sufficiently critical mass of whinging that WR will actually take a sensible approach to this issue.
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Bullshit Mike. You've played. In that spot you do the same thing.
Ah no.
Never got penalised for a late and/or high tackle. Or swinging arm.
Couple of instances in the France v Tonga match where the French players were happy for the Tongans to gain one, maybe two more metres going forward as they fell to the ground and then swooped in to try to steal the ball.
On the goal line you don't have the luxury of those metres but as explained on another thread better to not infringe, concede a try, but still be on the park than infringe and be binned.
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
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@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
Something about Mike's recent posts suggests to me he's taken a few too any high shots himself (either that or he's majorly on the piss).
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@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
No idea what this means sorry
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
Something about Mike's recent posts suggests to me he's taken a few too any high shots himself (either that or he's majorly on the piss).
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
Something about Mike's recent posts suggests to me he's taken a few too any high shots himself (either that or he's majorly on the piss).
:face_with_hand_over_mouth:
Neither.
But seen the result of too many shots to the head. It's not pretty.
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Maybe world rugby should introduce a multicolour card system, to take account of the degree of seriousness
"On-field decision is magenta, can you confirm?"
"That's all the angles, and the correct decision is in fact cyan".
"Blue 6, that tackle was between the neck and head, so instead of magenta it's cyan. 12 minutes in the bin, 20 push-ups, 10 burpees"
