Red cards
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For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Ofa used the same technique that he uses all the time, only difference was the attacker lead with his head low to the ground. I believe these professional players tackle technique is likely a subconscious activity that happens the same nearly every time. To say he deliberately lead with an arm to the head of the opponent is unfair on those players.
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@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Ofa used the same technique that he uses all the time, only difference was the attacker lead with his head low to the ground. I believe these professional players tackle technique is likely a subconscious activity that happens the same nearly every time. To say he deliberately lead with an arm to the head of the opponent is unfair on those players.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Ofa used the same technique that he uses all the time, only difference was the attacker lead with his head low to the ground. I believe these professional players tackle technique is likely a subconscious activity that happens the same nearly every time. To say he deliberately lead with an arm to the head of the opponent is unfair on those players.
The Argie guy showed intent, you could see in his face he was out to hurt. Our boys didn't, but it is now a technical problem that everyone is racing to correct. Arms to be used for grappling only
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
I agree that is the less risky, but more passive option, which is where the 'tackling instinct ' obviously needs to revert.
But what if he was defending on his tryline in that scenario? Serious question.
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@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
I agree that is the less risky, but more passive option, which is where the 'tackling instinct ' obviously needs to revert.
But what if he was defending on his tryline in that scenario? Serious question.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
I agree that is the less risky, but more passive option, which is where the 'tackling instinct ' obviously needs to revert.
But what if he was defending on his tryline in that scenario? Serious question.
Then it would have been a penalty try.
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Bullshit Mike. You've played. In that spot you do the same thing.
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I’ve complained about this on Twitter, and had a few people respond ‘just tackle lower’.
But I’m not sure those people have ever played rugby. High tackles are just a part of the game, and I’m not sure you can ever eradicate them. Yes some are a result of reckless play, but others are just instinct (sticking out an arm when you’ve been stepped by a halfback near the ruck), or tiredness (being caught on the back foot in the late stages of a game).
I’m not sure how you eradicate that from the game. Especially for players above 6ft 6.
At the moment World Rugby have signalled they are happy to ruin games as a spectacle in order to change player behaviour. I think that’s too big a trade-off, and think they need to find a better balance between protecting the players and ensuring games are enjoyable for fans.
@barbarian said in Red cards:
I’ve complained about this on Twitter, and had a few people respond ‘just tackle lower’.
But I’m not sure those people have ever played rugby. High tackles are just a part of the game, and I’m not sure you can ever eradicate them. Yes some are a result of reckless play, but others are just instinct (sticking out an arm when you’ve been stepped by a halfback near the ruck), or tiredness (being caught on the back foot in the late stages of a game).
I’m not sure how you eradicate that from the game. Especially for players above 6ft 6.
At the moment World Rugby have signalled they are happy to ruin games as a spectacle in order to change player behaviour. I think that’s too big a trade-off, and think they need to find a better balance between protecting the players and ensuring games are enjoyable for fans.
This is probably the best post on this issue so far and clearly written from the practical perspective of someone who has played the game (presently or at least in the recent past by the look of things).
The objective is an entirely noble one, but the means adopted by WR go too far. You simply cannot treat a marginally high tackle, caused by a timing issue (e.g. a late, high speed change of angle) in the same way your treat out-and-out foul play.
It's just entirely unfair to the players, most importantly.
There will be a red card during one of the knockout games in this tournament and it will cost a team 4 years of hard work and maybe even some careers. How on earth is that fair punishment for a purely accidental, fractionally mis-timed tackle?
Edit: our only hope is that the unfortunate recipients of a red card in such a situation is England - only then will there be a sufficiently critical mass of whinging that WR will actually take a sensible approach to this issue.
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@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Bullshit Mike. You've played. In that spot you do the same thing.
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Bullshit Mike. You've played. In that spot you do the same thing.
Ah no.
Never got penalised for a late and/or high tackle. Or swinging arm.
Couple of instances in the France v Tonga match where the French players were happy for the Tongans to gain one, maybe two more metres going forward as they fell to the ground and then swooped in to try to steal the ball.
On the goal line you don't have the luxury of those metres but as explained on another thread better to not infringe, concede a try, but still be on the park than infringe and be binned.
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@barbarian said in Red cards:
I’ve complained about this on Twitter, and had a few people respond ‘just tackle lower’.
But I’m not sure those people have ever played rugby. High tackles are just a part of the game, and I’m not sure you can ever eradicate them. Yes some are a result of reckless play, but others are just instinct (sticking out an arm when you’ve been stepped by a halfback near the ruck), or tiredness (being caught on the back foot in the late stages of a game).
I’m not sure how you eradicate that from the game. Especially for players above 6ft 6.
At the moment World Rugby have signalled they are happy to ruin games as a spectacle in order to change player behaviour. I think that’s too big a trade-off, and think they need to find a better balance between protecting the players and ensuring games are enjoyable for fans.
This is probably the best post on this issue so far and clearly written from the practical perspective of someone who has played the game (presently or at least in the recent past by the look of things).
The objective is an entirely noble one, but the means adopted by WR go too far. You simply cannot treat a marginally high tackle, caused by a timing issue (e.g. a late, high speed change of angle) in the same way your treat out-and-out foul play.
It's just entirely unfair to the players, most importantly.
There will be a red card during one of the knockout games in this tournament and it will cost a team 4 years of hard work and maybe even some careers. How on earth is that fair punishment for a purely accidental, fractionally mis-timed tackle?
Edit: our only hope is that the unfortunate recipients of a red card in such a situation is England - only then will there be a sufficiently critical mass of whinging that WR will actually take a sensible approach to this issue.
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
Bullshit Mike. You've played. In that spot you do the same thing.
Ah no.
Never got penalised for a late and/or high tackle. Or swinging arm.
Couple of instances in the France v Tonga match where the French players were happy for the Tongans to gain one, maybe two more metres going forward as they fell to the ground and then swooped in to try to steal the ball.
On the goal line you don't have the luxury of those metres but as explained on another thread better to not infringe, concede a try, but still be on the park than infringe and be binned.
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
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@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
Something about Mike's recent posts suggests to me he's taken a few too any high shots himself (either that or he's majorly on the piss).
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@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
No idea what this means sorry
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@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
Something about Mike's recent posts suggests to me he's taken a few too any high shots himself (either that or he's majorly on the piss).
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
Something about Mike's recent posts suggests to me he's taken a few too any high shots himself (either that or he's majorly on the piss).
:face_with_hand_over_mouth:
Neither.
But seen the result of too many shots to the head. It's not pretty.
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Maybe world rugby should introduce a multicolour card system, to take account of the degree of seriousness
"On-field decision is magenta, can you confirm?"
"That's all the angles, and the correct decision is in fact cyan".
"Blue 6, that tackle was between the neck and head, so instead of magenta it's cyan. 12 minutes in the bin, 20 push-ups, 10 burpees" -
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow really? I'm astounded.
You prop like that, s bloke falls in to your arm, you get carded? Oosh that's tough
Something about Mike's recent posts suggests to me he's taken a few too any high shots himself (either that or he's majorly on the piss).
:face_with_hand_over_mouth:
Neither.
But seen the result of too many shots to the head. It's not pretty.
@MiketheSnow I dont think there is any argument that we need to be protecting the head, but WR have a responsibility to protect the integrity of the game, and some of the cards that are being handed out are at odds with this.
They should not be using thier showpeice as a testing ground for this, unless thye thnk thier audience is largely ignorant to the technical aspects.
Your arm needs to be swinging/moving toward the player to make the tackle, otherwise you get done for a shoulder charge, how is it the defenders fault if a player trips or dips into a tackle to ensure they are not going to be held up and he then accidentally hits the head because it is too late ot not make a normal tackle?
The Ofa tackle last night, shouldnt even be a penalty, the Nepo one, I am ok it was penalised, not happy it was YCd but can see why given his arm looked to have impacted a bit heavier, but again, very little these guys can do in the situation, already committed, pull back the arm and they shoulder charge, if that ends up collecting the head, RC...
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Matt Dawson feels this is the perfect stage
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Matt Dawson feels this is the perfect stage
@MiketheSnow pretty sure Matt Dawson is a f@ckstick....
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@MiketheSnow pretty sure Matt Dawson is a f@ckstick....
@taniwharugby said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow pretty sure Matt Dawson is a f@ckstick....
Why only 'pretty sure'?
Your memory playing up or something?
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@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
I agree that is the less risky, but more passive option, which is where the 'tackling instinct ' obviously needs to revert.
But what if he was defending on his tryline in that scenario? Serious question.
Then it would have been a penalty try.
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@MiketheSnow said in Red cards:
@mariner4life said in Red cards:
For the "just tackle lower" crowd, what exactly was Ofa T supposed to do differently?
Not lead with a swinging arm to the head.
Let the ball carrier continue his trajectory to the dirt, then jackal.
I agree that is the less risky, but more passive option, which is where the 'tackling instinct ' obviously needs to revert.
But what if he was defending on his tryline in that scenario? Serious question.
Then it would have been a penalty try.
Sorry Mike, but that's just stupid. You've just made it impossible to defend your line from a ruck closer than 2m out.
I asked this question earlier but didn't see anyone answer so I will ask it again - why is it the responsibility of the defender to protect the head of an attacking player who is charging forward recklessly, head and neck first, ball tucked away in his midriff or at his side, a full 2 feet behind the point of impact?
Why isn't it the attackers responsibility to protect his head by running upright, making the shoulder or chest or a fend as the initial point of impact?
Yes I am aware that for 100 years we have coached players to get their body height down, to drive low through tackles etc, and with good reason. But it strikes me as odd that we are now asking defenders to solve the problem for them.
Swinging arms are not necessary, but if you want to lead with your head, then you're going to make contact with my arms. Your issue, not mine.
