2020 All Blacks Squad
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@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
The new coach is going to have to start all over again. It really does feel like 2003 doesn't it?
God, I hope.
@antipodean said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
The new coach is going to have to start all over again. It really does feel like 2003 doesn't it?
God, I hope.
that was a pretty good reset.
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We've go huge issues at lock. Retallic on holiday. Whitelock looking like he needs a holiday. Barrett wouldn't start for any of our rivals. Patty T just isn't coming along. Behind that there is zilch.
Front row is a WIP, but our main point of difference in Coles is on the downhill side of his career. The answer at 6 is not found. We don't have an 8 (you could argue we have barely had one for a year, but that would be churlish). Couple of very good but very different 7s is our strength at the moment.
The new coach is going to have to start all over again. It really does feel like 2003 doesn't it?
Yep, plenty of work needed.
I think our props are in reasonable shape, but at hooker it would nice if Aumua improved his throwing and stepped into the third spot. Apart from that, we’ll have to use some older legs.
At lock, I agree that we are in trouble. In fact I think it’s the only place where we are in dire need of a real effort. I’d look at Parkinson straight away and I think next year we should put pressure on Pat T to bring it at international level consistently. That cupboard is bare - Scott Barrett is not Brad Thorn. I don’t mind him off the bench or as a stop gap option, but he’s hardly a world class starting lock.
I’m less concerned about 8 and even 6 now that there is less time pressure to find the answer. Right away, we could use Frizell, Cane, and Ardie. Outside of that, Papalii will get his chance and I think he could have a big future playing a similar 6/7 role off the bench (and starting the future), plus Jacobson of course if he doesn’t have head trouble. He looks very Readish - I won’t be surprised to see him at 8 soon. Plus, its up to Akira whether he wants it or not and this year will be crucial. Personally I think this could be an area of strength if we get the selections right.
Outside of that, we have no huge issues at HB, but it would be nice if a youngster started putting some pressure on the older guys, and of course a young first five (or two) are needed, plus one new midfielder (I like the Waikato boy for the future here).
Outside backs are never a problem, although a world class fullback would be nice to have - perhaps Jordie will develop, but he is, and will remain on my shit list for quite some time. Jordan will be likely to get a look in here at some stage, either at FB or right wing.
So, we should get significantly younger and that’s probably a good thing. The biggest issue is getting a coaching plan that makes use of our forwards in the middle, but that’s a different story.
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The recent RWC has shown that there is a need of hard, abrasive forwards. Dalton Papali'i and Luke Jacobson would fill this role perfectly IMO. Questions could be raised about the lock stocks in NZ. Who has this profile ? IWL maybe, I don't see many others.
@cgrant said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
The recent RWC has shown that there is a need of hard, abrasive forwards. Dalton Papali'i and Luke Jacobson would fill this role perfectly IMO. Questions could be raised about the lock stocks in NZ. Who has this profile ? IWL maybe, I don't see many others.
I like Jacobson's hardness and work ethic but in terms of providing some size at 6 or 8 (which is a thing people seem to be concerned about), he doesn't seem huge. Chiefs list him as 103kg/189cm but he obviously wore heels for the All Blacks, who have him at 107kg/191cm.
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We've go huge issues at lock. Retallic on holiday. Whitelock looking like he needs a holiday. Barrett wouldn't start for any of our rivals. Patty T just isn't coming along. Behind that there is zilch.
Front row is a WIP, but our main point of difference in Coles is on the downhill side of his career. The answer at 6 is not found. We don't have an 8 (you could argue we have barely had one for a year, but that would be churlish). Couple of very good but very different 7s is our strength at the moment.
The new coach is going to have to start all over again. It really does feel like 2003 doesn't it?
@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Patty T just isn't coming along.
I thought he made some big progress this year after the nutrition change. He should've gotten more game time
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@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Patty T just isn't coming along.
I thought he made some big progress this year after the nutrition change. He should've gotten more game time
@Duluth said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
Patty T just isn't coming along.
I thought he made some big progress this year after the nutrition change. He should've gotten more game time
strides yes, but he's not consistent enough.
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We've go huge issues at lock. Retallic on holiday. Whitelock looking like he needs a holiday. Barrett wouldn't start for any of our rivals. Patty T just isn't coming along. Behind that there is zilch.
Front row is a WIP, but our main point of difference in Coles is on the downhill side of his career. The answer at 6 is not found. We don't have an 8 (you could argue we have barely had one for a year, but that would be churlish). Couple of very good but very different 7s is our strength at the moment.
The new coach is going to have to start all over again. It really does feel like 2003 doesn't it?
@mariner4life said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
The new coach is going to have to start all over again. It really does feel like 2003 doesn't it?
Hard to believe we pretty much had all the building blocks for 2011 and 2015 already in 2003, and then really had them by EOYT 2004.
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We need an aerial lock that can dominate the middle of the lineout. If Sam isn't there, we need to find some tall timber Pat T or Barrett are more of your front of the lineout specialists. You boys are being hard on S. Barrett. He is quite a hard-nosed player, more consistent than Pat T for sure.
I think with a new coaching set up, Jodie Barrett would have to light up the Super Rugby comp to get a look in. His brain farts are beyond belief. I'm beginning to doubt the "potential" line people bring out. Jordan or Havili etc seem better players at this stage. -
Yep, plenty of work needed.
I think our props are in reasonable shape, but at hooker it would nice if Aumua improved his throwing and stepped into the third spot. Apart from that, we’ll have to use some older legs.
At lock, I agree that we are in trouble. In fact I think it’s the only place where we are in dire need of a real effort. I’d look at Parkinson straight away and I think next year we should put pressure on Pat T to bring it at international level consistently. That cupboard is bare - Scott Barrett is not Brad Thorn. I don’t mind him off the bench or as a stop gap option, but he’s hardly a world class starting lock.
I’m less concerned about 8 and even 6 now that there is less time pressure to find the answer. Right away, we could use Frizell, Cane, and Ardie. Outside of that, Papalii will get his chance and I think he could have a big future playing a similar 6/7 role off the bench (and starting the future), plus Jacobson of course if he doesn’t have head trouble. He looks very Readish - I won’t be surprised to see him at 8 soon. Plus, its up to Akira whether he wants it or not and this year will be crucial. Personally I think this could be an area of strength if we get the selections right.
Outside of that, we have no huge issues at HB, but it would be nice if a youngster started putting some pressure on the older guys, and of course a young first five (or two) are needed, plus one new midfielder (I like the Waikato boy for the future here).
Outside backs are never a problem, although a world class fullback would be nice to have - perhaps Jordie will develop, but he is, and will remain on my shit list for quite some time. Jordan will be likely to get a look in here at some stage, either at FB or right wing.
So, we should get significantly younger and that’s probably a good thing. The biggest issue is getting a coaching plan that makes use of our forwards in the middle, but that’s a different story.
@gt12 I don't think there will be that many changes. Only where players have left and/or we still haven't found the solution to previous departures.
Lock: Parkinson, Walker-Leawere may be options if they have good SR seasons; I haven't written off Strange yet, either.
6/8: Name to be added to the ones you mention: Blackadder if he has a good SR season (he will probably get more game time in 2020); he had a huge NPC season. Longer term: I hope Flanders will get his chances at the Canes (I'm not too confident, because it's the Canes after all); Mikaele-Tu'u is a big lad who should get more game time for the Landers now that Whitelock and E Dixon have finally buggered off.
Halfback: Fakatava should leapfrog Hammington and get more game time in 2020. Definitely will be on the radar for the long-term. In the mean time, Smith, TJP and Weber will do. Not sure TTT will be in the frame again.
1st five: apart from Josh Ioane there aren't many options for a third 10 in 2020. I'm looking forward to seeing how Falcon goes for the Chiefs (if he can stay injury free).
Midfield: if he gets enough game time, maybe Toala (12, but also good at 15 and can play 10. good goal kicker) and, of course, Ennor as a wing/centre option is already capped. With Laumape an almost certain addition, I think we're fine in the midfield.
Outside backs: definitely David Havili. Can play fullback, midfield and even 10 (he did very well there for the Mako). Has a great boot, too. Had an excellent SR and NPC season in 2019. He was close to an RWC spot and IMO he should have been there instead of Jordie. Jordan still needs to prove himself more at SR level looks a good prospect. We'll have to see who of the sevens boys will be keepers for XVs. Nareki was hot and cold during NPC; same Koroi. Can't say I've noticed Clarke too often. Rayasi has potential but needs game time, which will be hard in a stacked Canes squad. I think Goosen is too small. If Dmac and Reece are already there, you don't want another midget.
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@gt12 I don't think there will be that many changes. Only where players have left and/or we still haven't found the solution to previous departures.
Lock: Parkinson, Walker-Leawere may be options if they have good SR seasons; I haven't written off Strange yet, either.
6/8: Name to be added to the ones you mention: Blackadder if he has a good SR season (he will probably get more game time in 2020); he had a huge NPC season. Longer term: I hope Flanders will get his chances at the Canes (I'm not too confident, because it's the Canes after all); Mikaele-Tu'u is a big lad who should get more game time for the Landers now that Whitelock and E Dixon have finally buggered off.
Halfback: Fakatava should leapfrog Hammington and get more game time in 2020. Definitely will be on the radar for the long-term. In the mean time, Smith, TJP and Weber will do. Not sure TTT will be in the frame again.
1st five: apart from Josh Ioane there aren't many options for a third 10 in 2020. I'm looking forward to seeing how Falcon goes for the Chiefs (if he can stay injury free).
Midfield: if he gets enough game time, maybe Toala (12, but also good at 15 and can play 10. good goal kicker) and, of course, Ennor as a wing/centre option is already capped. With Laumape an almost certain addition, I think we're fine in the midfield.
Outside backs: definitely David Havili. Can play fullback, midfield and even 10 (he did very well there for the Mako). Has a great boot, too. Had an excellent SR and NPC season in 2019. He was close to an RWC spot and IMO he should have been there instead of Jordie. Jordan still needs to prove himself more at SR level looks a good prospect. We'll have to see who of the sevens boys will be keepers for XVs. Nareki was hot and cold during NPC; same Koroi. Can't say I've noticed Clarke too often. Rayasi has potential but needs game time, which will be hard in a stacked Canes squad. I think Goosen is too small. If Dmac and Reece are already there, you don't want another midget.
@Stargazer whenever I see someone mention Laumape I have a little laugh because at test level he’s been between okay-ish and anonymous.
There’s been several times in tests he’s played and all he’s done is run decoy lines and been bypassed. I don’t think there was a a great deal of trust there at the next level.
A very effective Super rugby player so I do not begrudge his selection one bit, but at this point I think he needs to show a lot more than what he has. And he has had opportunity!
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@Stargazer whenever I see someone mention Laumape I have a little laugh because at test level he’s been between okay-ish and anonymous.
There’s been several times in tests he’s played and all he’s done is run decoy lines and been bypassed. I don’t think there was a a great deal of trust there at the next level.
A very effective Super rugby player so I do not begrudge his selection one bit, but at this point I think he needs to show a lot more than what he has. And he has had opportunity!
@ACT-Crusader I thought Laumape was improving during the 2019 season, but I'm keen to see Toala get opportunities for the Canes. If he takes those opportunities, he might add some competition for the Canes 12 jersey and who knows what will follow. Laumape hasn't had enough competition for that Canes 12 jersey; it might actually help him improve, too.
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@canefan worst sort of woke drivel. Pick people for any job based on their ability, not sex or race.
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Ennor gives me wood, hopefully he continues to take his chances next year. The new coach has a plethora of options in the backs but the locking depth and loose forward mix with 8 being an interesting challenge.
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@Stargazer whenever I see someone mention Laumape I have a little laugh because at test level he’s been between okay-ish and anonymous.
There’s been several times in tests he’s played and all he’s done is run decoy lines and been bypassed. I don’t think there was a a great deal of trust there at the next level.
A very effective Super rugby player so I do not begrudge his selection one bit, but at this point I think he needs to show a lot more than what he has. And he has had opportunity!
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@ACT-Crusader that's certainly not the impression I've got from his test appearances. 10 tries in 15 tests doesn't exactly scream ordinary either.
@Bones more than half of those tries have come against Japan, Baabaas, Italy, French invitational.
I can think of an Argies test and one of the BIL tests that I thought he was okay. But his distribution game is limited and I think that’s where he’s been bypassed as a ball playing option during games and it’s been noticeable.
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@Bones more than half of those tries have come against Japan, Baabaas, Italy, French invitational.
I can think of an Argies test and one of the BIL tests that I thought he was okay. But his distribution game is limited and I think that’s where he’s been bypassed as a ball playing option during games and it’s been noticeable.
@ACT-Crusader yeah my impression was he was used in a specific role just like most of the players. We see it a lot with "new" players where they come in and do a lot of ball tucking.
Looking good against a non tier one side is still looking good imo.
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@taniwharugby said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@shark I expect Savea will be at 8 next year.
I hope not. We need bulk with mobility at 8 and 6.
@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@taniwharugby said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@shark I expect Savea will be at 8 next year.
I hope not. We need bulk with mobility at 8 and 6.
Yeah, Savea is notoriously lacking in mobility!
It's all bullshit anyway that big is better. The Springboks -- famous for their size -- have a huge PSDT. But alongside him they have a Francois Louw and Siya Kolisi, neither of which are huge, and a tiny by modern standards Kwagga Smith. Duane Vermeulen isn't enormous. We've beaten them most years -- indeed this year -- without requiring huge men.
Better is better, and if you think a bigger man is going to be better than Ardie Savea has been this year, then you're mental.
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@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@taniwharugby said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@shark I expect Savea will be at 8 next year.
I hope not. We need bulk with mobility at 8 and 6.
Yeah, Savea is notoriously lacking in mobility!
It's all bullshit anyway that big is better. The Springboks -- famous for their size -- have a huge PSDT. But alongside him they have a Francois Louw and Siya Kolisi, neither of which are huge, and a tiny by modern standards Kwagga Smith. Duane Vermeulen isn't enormous. We've beaten them most years -- indeed this year -- without requiring huge men.
Better is better, and if you think a bigger man is going to be better than Ardie Savea has been this year, then you're mental.
@Chester-Draws well shit, if Duane Vermuelen isn't a big bastard then I've obviously misidentified him. Kolisi is a good size unit too, he isn't small, especially for an openside.
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@Bones more than half of those tries have come against Japan, Baabaas, Italy, French invitational.
I can think of an Argies test and one of the BIL tests that I thought he was okay. But his distribution game is limited and I think that’s where he’s been bypassed as a ball playing option during games and it’s been noticeable.
@ACT-Crusader said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Bones more than half of those tries have come against Japan, Baabaas, Italy, French invitational.
I can think of an Argies test and one of the BIL tests that I thought he was okay. But his distribution game is limited and I think that’s where he’s been bypassed as a ball playing option during games and it’s been noticeable.
For 2020, I'd be happy enough to shelve the idea that we need an entire backline of small guys who pass real good but can't generate any go forward
