All Black Coach - Ian Foster
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I kind of agree, terrible judgement from Whitelock, but it was so out of character for him - and he's played plenty of important games including MOTM efforts in the last world cup knockouts, that it seems a bit harsh to say 'not captaincy material' based on one incident. Certainly the Crusaders have performed far better with him as captain than with Read.
You need more than Sam Cane's steely look in the eyes, you need to tell people what to do, and what not to do, and keep it simple under pressure.
As for whipping Ireland, the only impact that had was on over-confidence. We weren't tired from that game - it was never in doubt, we were able to sub early, and we had already missed the Italy game. And powder? England didn't adjust their tactics against us at the last minute after viewing the Irish game. We changed ours (poorly), dropped Cane, and we showed up without the right mindset - got smashed early and never recovered momentum, and the guys lost composure - that situation not helped by picking people like Jordie over B Smith, no Crotty etc.@reprobate said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I kind of agree, terrible judgement from Whitelock, but it was so out of character for him - and he's played plenty of important games including MOTM efforts in the last world cup knockouts, that it seems a bit harsh to say 'not captaincy material' based on one incident. Certainly the Crusaders have performed far better with him as captain than with Read.
You need more than Sam Cane's steely look in the eyes, you need to tell people what to do, and what not to do, and keep it simple under pressure.
As for whipping Ireland, the only impact that had was on over-confidence. We weren't tired from that game - it was never in doubt, we were able to sub early, and we had already missed the Italy game. And powder? England didn't adjust their tactics against us at the last minute after viewing the Irish game. We changed ours (poorly), dropped Cane, and we showed up without the right mindset - got smashed early and never recovered momentum, and the guys lost composure - that situation not helped by picking people like Jordie over B Smith, no Crotty etc.England had been planning for AB semi. Bringing Ford in worked fantastically for them. I think they correctly picked we'd be aiming to go wide to beat rush. Contrast with Boks in Final.
I think we did change things a bit, but under pressure players reverted to what they'd been practising for last month.
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@Chris-B said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@gt12 Pretty much those positions.
With hindsight, I think Crotty and ALB in the midfield is the most crucial one.
Cane and Ardie on the flanks would have also left Scott Barrett to come off the bench.
I think they should have taken Big Karl and paired him and Ofa on the bench - leaving Ofa as the tighthead sub.
Ben Smith at a minimum instead of Jordie, but perhaps instead of Sevu Reece. Maybe Rieko ahead of Bridge - circumstances sort of conspired against Rieko getting opportunities to prove he should be there.
In hindsight I can’t disagree with any of those - Goodhue would be most unlucky, but he had been during the WC, so all that switching led to trouble, that’s a bit 2007ish as we should have had that combo playing together more and I think they just wanted the two best players, rather than the best combo (a little 1999ish too then).
On the front row, I agree. It’s worth noting that Moli was good when he got a chance - however he was never going to be used in a big game, so it should have been Karl in the squad which would have given us a choice between Ofa, Karl, and Angus. I think they wanted Angus’ workrate late in the game but we got a bit less experienced and had others in positions they just aren’t as good at (Ofa).
I think it was @dogmeat who said that Bridge was (supposedly) nailed on about 12 months out - but we never got to see him with Rieko or tried anywhere except on the left, so they had to see that problem arising.
@gt12 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Chris-B said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@gt12 Pretty much those positions.
With hindsight, I think Crotty and ALB in the midfield is the most crucial one.
Cane and Ardie on the flanks would have also left Scott Barrett to come off the bench.
I think they should have taken Big Karl and paired him and Ofa on the bench - leaving Ofa as the tighthead sub.
Ben Smith at a minimum instead of Jordie, but perhaps instead of Sevu Reece. Maybe Rieko ahead of Bridge - circumstances sort of conspired against Rieko getting opportunities to prove he should be there.
In hindsight I can’t disagree with any of those - Goodhue would be most unlucky, but he had been during the WC, so all that switching led to trouble, that’s a bit 2007ish as we should have had that combo playing together more and I think they just wanted the two best players, rather than the best combo (a little 1999ish too then).
On the front row, I agree. It’s worth noting that Moli was good when he got a chance - however he was never going to be used in a big game, so it should have been Karl in the squad which would have given us a choice between Ofa, Karl, and Angus. I think they wanted Angus’ workrate late in the game but we got a bit less experienced and had others in positions they just aren’t as good at (Ofa).
I think it was @dogmeat who said that Bridge was (supposedly) nailed on about 12 months out - but we never got to see him with Rieko or tried anywhere except on the left, so they had to see that problem arising.
The final showed that with Itoje on TH side and a big attacking LH (Karl T), a sustained second shove could splinter the English. And had Bender and Crotty been on for most of the last 40 I can't help feeling things would have been different.
Hindsight 40/40! -
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
EDIT - I should say, the fact that it was a 100-test veteran doing something so stupid, when faced with a potentially match-defining moment, is scarcely believable. This is why he should be nowhere near the captaincy, whoever the new coach may be.
I'm more concerned about the penalty reversal.
@antipodean said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
EDIT - I should say, the fact that it was a 100-test veteran doing something so stupid, when faced with a potentially match-defining moment, is scarcely believable. This is why he should be nowhere near the captaincy, whoever the new coach may be.
I'm more concerned about the penalty reversal.
I think we’re talking about the same thing here, chief. Or are you suggesting the penalty should not have been reversed?
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@antipodean said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
EDIT - I should say, the fact that it was a 100-test veteran doing something so stupid, when faced with a potentially match-defining moment, is scarcely believable. This is why he should be nowhere near the captaincy, whoever the new coach may be.
I'm more concerned about the penalty reversal.
I think we’re talking about the same thing here, chief. Or are you suggesting the penalty should not have been reversed?
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@antipodean said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
EDIT - I should say, the fact that it was a 100-test veteran doing something so stupid, when faced with a potentially match-defining moment, is scarcely believable. This is why he should be nowhere near the captaincy, whoever the new coach may be.
I'm more concerned about the penalty reversal.
I think we’re talking about the same thing here, chief. Or are you suggesting the penalty should not have been reversed?
The latter. It's sad that rugby has got to the point where a lock can't shove a back away from the ball to take a quick penalty.
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@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@antipodean said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
EDIT - I should say, the fact that it was a 100-test veteran doing something so stupid, when faced with a potentially match-defining moment, is scarcely believable. This is why he should be nowhere near the captaincy, whoever the new coach may be.
I'm more concerned about the penalty reversal.
I think we’re talking about the same thing here, chief. Or are you suggesting the penalty should not have been reversed?
The latter. It's sad that rugby has got to the point where a lock can't shove a back away from the ball to take a quick penalty.
@antipodean said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@antipodean said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
EDIT - I should say, the fact that it was a 100-test veteran doing something so stupid, when faced with a potentially match-defining moment, is scarcely believable. This is why he should be nowhere near the captaincy, whoever the new coach may be.
I'm more concerned about the penalty reversal.
I think we’re talking about the same thing here, chief. Or are you suggesting the penalty should not have been reversed?
The latter. It's sad that rugby has got to the point where a lock can't shove a back away from the ball to take a quick penalty.
Well, yes, there is that I suppose (but IIRC, the push was to the face, which does make it a little bit worse). But, you expect your VC and 100-test veteran to realise he might be rolling the dice a bit before doing something like that.
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@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
This mean that we had to play a "final" at the QF stage, which left us with little left for the SF against England.
I'm convinced that had the players kept their cool a la the 2015 lot, we'd have nicked that game.
Not blaming Read for the loss as he gives 110%, but the leadership in that game from him and the other senior players was sub-standard
@Victor-Meldrew said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@junior said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
This mean that we had to play a "final" at the QF stage, which left us with little left for the SF against England.
I'm convinced that had the players kept their cool a la the 2015 lot, we'd have nicked that game.
Not blaming Read for the loss as he gives 110%, but the leadership in that game from him and the other senior players was sub-standard
The blame for that loss lies squarely with Eddie Jones, Itoje, Underhill & Curry.
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If, big IF, the article is right about the assistants Fozzie is a walk in. And rightly so - I don't think that is a bad group 'rumoured'
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12287698
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If, big IF, the article is right about the assistants Fozzie is a walk in. And rightly so - I don't think that is a bad group 'rumoured'
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12287698
@Machpants yep, if Fozzie can get Plumtree and Schmidt alongside him, that would be a huge boost...
I'd be concerned if we got Razor and McDonald though...
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@Machpants yep, if Fozzie can get Plumtree and Schmidt alongside him, that would be a huge boost...
I'd be concerned if we got Razor and McDonald though...
@taniwharugby said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Machpants yep, if Fozzie can get Plumtree and Schmidt alongside him, that would be a huge boost...
I'd be concerned if we got Razor and McDonald though...
I agree, not only are they both inexperienced, it's also 2 SR teams getting fucked
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@taniwharugby said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Machpants yep, if Fozzie can get Plumtree and Schmidt alongside him, that would be a huge boost...
I'd be concerned if we got Razor and McDonald though...
I agree, not only are they both inexperienced, it's also 2 SR teams getting fucked
@Machpants said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I agree, not only are they both inexperienced, it's also 2 SR teams getting fucked
Would be a boon for the Blues, would be happy to see Coventry caretaker.
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So it seems that many of the top candidates for the AB Head Coach have been negotiating for months with other international unions. 6 months in the case of Dave Rennie and Rugby Australia. NZ Rugby's refusal to initiate this process until well after the RWC looks to have been a terribly flawed approach - because all the other top candidates have jobs elsewhere. Ian Foster will be the last man standing, which is unbelievable given the number of talented NZ coaches that are around Rugby globally.
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@Machpants said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I agree, not only are they both inexperienced, it's also 2 SR teams getting fucked
Would be a boon for the Blues, would be happy to see Coventry caretaker.
@rotated said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Machpants said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I agree, not only are they both inexperienced, it's also 2 SR teams getting fucked
Would be a boon for the Blues, would be happy to see Coventry caretaker.
I presume that's based on his Head Coaching record at London Irish and your aspirations for the Blues?
Only person that would be a boon for would be Leon!
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So it seems that many of the top candidates for the AB Head Coach have been negotiating for months with other international unions. 6 months in the case of Dave Rennie and Rugby Australia. NZ Rugby's refusal to initiate this process until well after the RWC looks to have been a terribly flawed approach - because all the other top candidates have jobs elsewhere. Ian Foster will be the last man standing, which is unbelievable given the number of talented NZ coaches that are around Rugby globally.
@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
So it seems that many of the top candidates for the AB Head Coach have been negotiating for months with other international unions. 6 months in the case of Dave Rennie and Rugby Australia. NZ Rugby's refusal to initiate this process until well after the RWC looks to have been a terribly flawed approach - because all the other top candidates have jobs elsewhere. Ian Foster will be the last man standing, which is unbelievable given the number of talented NZ coaches that are around Rugby globally.
They could have started 12 months ago and got nowhere because nobody is interested in a 26 candidate process.
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@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
So it seems that many of the top candidates for the AB Head Coach have been negotiating for months with other international unions. 6 months in the case of Dave Rennie and Rugby Australia. NZ Rugby's refusal to initiate this process until well after the RWC looks to have been a terribly flawed approach - because all the other top candidates have jobs elsewhere. Ian Foster will be the last man standing, which is unbelievable given the number of talented NZ coaches that are around Rugby globally.
They could have started 12 months ago and got nowhere because nobody is interested in a 26 candidate process.
@Godder said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
They could have started 12 months ago and got nowhere because nobody is interested in a 26 candidate process.
The 26 candidate process was a debacle, with NZR desperate to appear like they were looking as far and wide as possible and that the search was genuine. The timing of this process has been a debacle and NZR's refusal to formally look for Hansen's replacement until after the RWC now seems to be deeply flawed. To me this entire recruitment process seems like a sham and it's seems quite obvious that Ian Foster was always going to be appointed. This is a head coach who was in charge of Waikato and the Chiefs for a combined 10 seasons, resulting in zero titles and a winning percentage of 53%.
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The Herald article is spot on about Foster's team. Foster: Head Coach, Plumtree: Forwards. Schmidt: Backs. McLeod: Defence.
If Razor's Assistants are that weak then he has no chance. A better team for Robertson would be. Robertson:Head Coach, Gibbes: Forwards, O'Gara: Backs. Deans: Defence/ Counter attack
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@Godder said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
They could have started 12 months ago and got nowhere because nobody is interested in a 26 candidate process.
The 26 candidate process was a debacle, with NZR desperate to appear like they were looking as far and wide as possible and that the search was genuine. The timing of this process has been a debacle and NZR's refusal to formally look for Hansen's replacement until after the RWC now seems to be deeply flawed. To me this entire recruitment process seems like a sham and it's seems quite obvious that Ian Foster was always going to be appointed. This is a head coach who was in charge of Waikato and the Chiefs for a combined 10 seasons, resulting in zero titles and a winning percentage of 53%.
@Cantab79 damned if they do, damned if they dont.
If they started the process before the RWC people would be bitching about it distracting the players and being the reason we lost.
Now as we lost 2 top candidates people moaning the process was wrong.
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Just want to ask a question. What has Foster done to deserve the top job? Please answer without referring or comparing to another person.
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Just want to ask a question. What has Foster done to deserve the top job? Please answer without referring or comparing to another person.
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Just want to ask a question. What has Foster done to deserve the top job? Please answer without referring or comparing to another person.
Coached at a high level.
Like a few other coaches I could refer to.
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Just want to ask a question. What has Foster done to deserve the top job? Please answer without referring or comparing to another person.
@Old-Samurai-Jack Bloody right. Sat there and got fat and comfortable by all accounts.
Bloody minus fart-all zero of a game plan in RWC and for heavyweight teams when it counted over the past couple of years too.
