'Super Rugby' 2021
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@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Can we have some proof of that? I cannot find the amount of the SA deal, NZR newest from sky has been guessed at. But nothing from SA. I'm not sure that they still bring in the biggest amount. The SA economy is fucked, maybe they used too, but it's it still the case?
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Can we have some proof of that? I cannot find the amount of the SA deal, NZR newest from sky has been guessed at. But nothing from SA. I'm not sure that they still bring in the biggest amount. The SA economy is fucked, maybe they used too, but it's it still the case?
@Machpants The SR viewership numbers for SuperSport will be greater than that of Sky and Fox Sports so I believe they still have the biggest slice of the broadcasting pie within SANZAAR.
It is hard to find any current information. This link might have some info but you need to subscribe.
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@Machpants The SR viewership numbers for SuperSport will be greater than that of Sky and Fox Sports so I believe they still have the biggest slice of the broadcasting pie within SANZAAR.
It is hard to find any current information. This link might have some info but you need to subscribe.
@Bovidae @Machpants I vaguely recall seeing somethign a couple of years back that indicated the SA numbers were not as big as oft stated, but were still the biggest of the 3. NZ numbers were higher than many thought they'd be IIRC
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@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Unconfirmed estimate of $400 million over 5 years - seems enough to make it worthwhile setting something up sooner rather than later, and if that's a Australasian competition to start with, so be it.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@TeWaio said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan
I'm fairly convinced that Japan is the key to financial security for NZ and the other Pacific Island unions. The timing is perfect to build on their RWC success.
Are flights to Japan likely in the near future?
The flight times to Tokyo and BA are similar so no reason not to include the Jaguares in any future competition if a long haul flight is required.
@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@TeWaio said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan
I'm fairly convinced that Japan is the key to financial security for NZ and the other Pacific Island unions. The timing is perfect to build on their RWC success.
Are flights to Japan likely in the near future?
I don't see why not. Their confirmed case rate is 0.01% of their population, compared to New Zealand's 0.03%
The flight times to Tokyo and BA are similar so no reason not to include the Jaguares in any future competition if a long haul flight is required.
They're in the same time zone and bring money.
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@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@TeWaio said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan
I'm fairly convinced that Japan is the key to financial security for NZ and the other Pacific Island unions. The timing is perfect to build on their RWC success.
Are flights to Japan likely in the near future?
I don't see why not. Their confirmed case rate is 0.01% of their population, compared to New Zealand's 0.03%
The flight times to Tokyo and BA are similar so no reason not to include the Jaguares in any future competition if a long haul flight is required.
They're in the same time zone and bring money.
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@TeWaio said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I agree with @shark that the whole key to making it all work is Japan
I'm fairly convinced that Japan is the key to financial security for NZ and the other Pacific Island unions. The timing is perfect to build on their RWC success.
Are flights to Japan likely in the near future?
I don't see why not. Their confirmed case rate is 0.01% of their population, compared to New Zealand's 0.03%
The flight times to Tokyo and BA are similar so no reason not to include the Jaguares in any future competition if a long haul flight is required.
They're in the same time zone and bring money.
A fuck of a lot better than Arg, and out of this world when you compare to pie-in-the-sky idea of a PI team. Unless The Rock is goin to come with his millions, no way in the world can any of the other unions afford to subsidise a PI team
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This from the article below gives some numbers but not specific to SA.
New Zealand Rugby finalised its own five year deal with Sky in June after signing a conditional agreement in October 2014, which also covers the All Blacks inbound June test series and the national provincial championship.
Details of the deal have not been made public, but the way it works is the Sanzar partners get a pre-agreed share of the income they collectively receive for Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship with NZ Rugby pocketing the money attributed to its provincial competition and the inbound June test series.
It is understood the new deal, which runs from 2016 to 2020, represents an increase on the previous contract which ran through to the end of this year's World Cup.
That deal was reportedly worth $615 million, a 35 per cent increase on the preceding deal.
[link text](link url)https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/75201467/super-rugby-tv-rights-australia-deal-worth-293-million
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@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Can we have some proof of that? I cannot find the amount of the SA deal, NZR newest from sky has been guessed at. But nothing from SA. I'm not sure that they still bring in the biggest amount. The SA economy is fucked, maybe they used too, but it's it still the case?
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Can we have some proof of that? I cannot find the amount of the SA deal, NZR newest from sky has been guessed at. But nothing from SA. I'm not sure that they still bring in the biggest amount. The SA economy is fucked, maybe they used too, but it's it still the case?
SA has a population of 59m. Straight away that's an imposing number vs our 5m and Australia's 25m; give or take, it's double the combined tally.
Even if you impose some racial stereotyping and consider the 'keen on rugby' population is the white portion, that's still 5.9m or there-abouts (9-10% of the population, depending on the source). But then add in a quantity of the coloured and black populations and you might get to a third of the population. That's a large potential TV viewership compared to rugby-mad NZ and the AFL/NRL/A League but far from rugby union mad Australian populace.
Don't try and tell me in any seriousness whatsover that losing SA doesn't create a massive money vacuum in SH TV rights. And don't try to bring the value of the rand into it because there's no way the deal would be done in the rand
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This from the article below gives some numbers but not specific to SA.
New Zealand Rugby finalised its own five year deal with Sky in June after signing a conditional agreement in October 2014, which also covers the All Blacks inbound June test series and the national provincial championship.
Details of the deal have not been made public, but the way it works is the Sanzar partners get a pre-agreed share of the income they collectively receive for Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship with NZ Rugby pocketing the money attributed to its provincial competition and the inbound June test series.
It is understood the new deal, which runs from 2016 to 2020, represents an increase on the previous contract which ran through to the end of this year's World Cup.
That deal was reportedly worth $615 million, a 35 per cent increase on the preceding deal.
[link text](link url)https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/75201467/super-rugby-tv-rights-australia-deal-worth-293-million
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@Chris I saw that headline and thought the the new Australian junta had already signed a TV deal.
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@shark said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Godder said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For 2021, I think start with an ANZ tournament. Less likely to be disrupted by travel and pandemic issues, so there's more certainty that the competition will be completed.
Either 5 NZ & 3 Oz teams, or perhaps 6 & 4. Too many Oz teams just means they get stomped, which I enjoy but probably isn't conducive to garnering a following in Oz given their love of winners.
Double round robin, home and away, semis and a final. If the playoffs need to be bigger in a 10 team competition, go top 5, with the old league system.
Where does the money come from to pay the players with this model? Without the African TV money, we need something to fill the breach.
TV rights and probably a pared back cost structure for everyone.
Without SA, or Japan, the TV rights money is peanuts.
Can we have some proof of that? I cannot find the amount of the SA deal, NZR newest from sky has been guessed at. But nothing from SA. I'm not sure that they still bring in the biggest amount. The SA economy is fucked, maybe they used too, but it's it still the case?
SA has a population of 59m. Straight away that's an imposing number vs our 5m and Australia's 25m; give or take, it's double the combined tally.
Even if you impose some racial stereotyping and consider the 'keen on rugby' population is the white portion, that's still 5.9m or there-abouts (9-10% of the population, depending on the source). But then add in a quantity of the coloured and black populations and you might get to a third of the population. That's a large potential TV viewership compared to rugby-mad NZ and the AFL/NRL/A League but far from rugby union mad Australian populace.
Don't try and tell me in any seriousness whatsover that losing SA doesn't create a massive money vacuum in SH TV rights. And don't try to bring the value of the rand into it because there's no way the deal would be done in the rand
@shark I am not doubting there will be a loss in revenue, but there is no proof it will be a giant's portion of it. We just don't know and are re-hashing what used to be the case. Looking at the cost of air travel to/from SA, in the current climate, that is going to make a massive -prohibitive?- difference. Argentina is right out. I've said before a lot of the value is selling to international, non SANZAAR, nations - and there the NZ teams are a big draw. Everyone I know in the UK as rugby fans knows and likes watching SR - and normally the NZ teams esp the derbies.
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I don't think potential difficulties in air travel would diminish the value of a TV rights deal. But whether or not that's an issue with SA is probably irelevent as we're assumimg they're goooone anyway. Argentina? Yeah sure, not as straightforward as it was when Air NZ flew into BA, but I don't think that's going to preclude the Jaguares from playing in SR.
It'd be great to see the actual numbers re which broadcasters globally pay what for the rights to Sanzaar competitions. But I wouldn't think whoever broadcasts it in the UK pays anything like as much as Super Sport SA.
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From a quick look, this is about the best I can find (and it is 3 years old). With them winning the WC, it could be growing again:
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From a quick look, this is about the best I can find (and it is 3 years old). With them winning the WC, it could be growing again:
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The key for me is to make it an even competition. Not one team winning year after year. It gets boring.
NZR's main focus has always been the AB's. This must change otherwise the next level down will continue to die
So the financial structure must be such so that every team has a chance to succeed and win it.One way to do this (inNZ) is for every team must pick up all the cost paid to AB players. In this way it will stop one team stacking their side with high paid AB players as they will run out of money (or exceed a salary cap).
For Aust they will need to drop down to 3 teams
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Some NZ viewership (sample) data.
Motherfuckers called me a Millennial. I'm Gen X you shitheads.
http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/7680-new-zealand-rugby-tv-viewers-june-2018-201808030712
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Viewership figures must be a bit misleading though? Who knows what those viewers in SA are paying...
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The key for me is to make it an even competition. Not one team winning year after year. It gets boring.
NZR's main focus has always been the AB's. This must change otherwise the next level down will continue to die
So the financial structure must be such so that every team has a chance to succeed and win it.One way to do this (inNZ) is for every team must pick up all the cost paid to AB players. In this way it will stop one team stacking their side with high paid AB players as they will run out of money (or exceed a salary cap).
For Aust they will need to drop down to 3 teams
@Winger said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The key for me is to make it an even competition. Not one team winning year after year. It gets boring.
NZR's main focus has always been the AB's. This must change otherwise the next level down will continue to die
So the financial structure must be such so that every team has a chance to succeed and win it.One way to do this (inNZ) is for every team must pick up all the cost paid to AB players. In this way it will stop one team stacking their side with high paid AB players as they will run out of money (or exceed a salary cap).
For Aust they will need to drop down to 3 teams
Can you further explain how the franchises will pay all these salaries directly?
