Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain
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@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Luke Whitelock - All Black Captain
Just, just let that sink in for a moment
It’s no harder than Todd Blackadder.
Who captained real tests.
@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Luke Whitelock - All Black Captain
Just, just let that sink in for a moment
It’s no harder than Todd Blackadder.
Who captained real tests.
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Watched first half. Ardie wasn't bad, but always just off at breakdown. A fit Sam may have affected a couple of turnovers, and would have been more effective covering for Ritchie M's tackling weakness, which lead to two of England's three best breaks.
I still think we gave England far too easy a ride in the first 5-10 minutes. Cane's physical presence would have blunted England's attack and stopped them getting on the front foot so early.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Watched first half. Ardie wasn't bad, but always just off at breakdown. A fit Sam may have affected a couple of turnovers, and would have been more effective covering for Ritchie M's tackling weakness, which lead to two of England's three best breaks.
I still think we gave England far too easy a ride in the first 5-10 minutes. Cane's physical presence would have blunted England's attack and stopped them getting on the front foot so early.
I agree, but in truth it wasn't as bad as I feared, only having seen game from one of the corners.
We were certainly off the pace in first ten, but missed tackles also hurt us big. By the same token Taylor's throwing was off, which cost us two or three lineouts, which is huge for momentum. On the plus side ALB never missed Tuilagi and was busy in loose.
The score at halftime was 10-0. Which on a rewatch was a bit harsh. The big factor being BBBR's horrible pass with a two on one overlap.
What WAS disppointing for me was how we went off the boil at breakdown in last three minutes or so. Two turnover penalties, then another penalty, giving England three points, which at that point was against the run of play. I'd like to think Sam C would have made a difference there.
Small margins.
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I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Canes' fans and @Canes4life
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@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Canes' fans and @Canes4life
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
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@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Perhaps he's suggesting that @Canes4life was a punishment?!
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@nzzp said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
List of captains for the ABs
http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/player/list_of_captains.html?id=8;type=team
List from Fitzy on, with number of captained matches in brackets
Fitz (51)
Henderson (1)
Marshall (4)
Randell (22)
Blackadder (10 - honestly thought it was more)
Oliver (10)
Thorne (23)
Umaga (21)
McCaw (110)
Collins J (3)
So'oialo (5)
Mealamu (3)
Muliana (3)
Hore (1)
Read (52)
Cane (3)
Smith B (1)
Whitelock S (6)
Whitelock L (1)Which test was Andrew Hore ABs captain for?
@sparky said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Which test was Andrew Hore ABs captain for?
It was a club game.
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@sparky said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Which test was Andrew Hore ABs captain for?
It was a club game.
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@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Noted. Fixed. Kinda self contradictory huh?
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@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Noted. Fixed. Kinda self contradictory huh?
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@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Noted. Fixed. Kinda self contradictory huh?
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Noted. Fixed. Kinda self contradictory huh?
Wasn't it grammar?
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@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Noted. Fixed. Kinda self contradictory huh?
Wasn't it grammar?
@pakman said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Noted. Fixed. Kinda self contradictory huh?
Wasn't it grammar?
Misuse of apostrophe completely changing meaning. D'oh.
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@pakman said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Noted. Fixed. Kinda self contradictory huh?
Wasn't it grammar?
Misuse of apostrophe completely changing meaning. D'oh.
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@pakman said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@MajorRage said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@booboo said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
I'm going to get crucified for this but
Ardie Savea is a luxury player at test level against most sides. He's dynamic, good on the run after contact on the fringes, and not bad over the ball. He'll look fantastic in loose games against Australia with their ordinary pack, or teams we are just better than.
Unfortunately test rugby is at least 60 minutes of trench warfare. Mainly played between the 22s, or if it gets close to the line, in close to the ruck. It's aerial kicks, and trying to breach the gain line through force. A Savea is not suited to that game style. S Cane is perfectly suited to it.
A Savea off the bench is a great use of resources, and shouldn't be viewed as a slight. S Cane should start every big test he is available for, and that makes him perfect captaincy material
Only by Cane's fans and @Canes4life
Astounded that as the Ferns vocabulary Nazi, that you have made quite a fundamental error here ...
Noted. Fixed. Kinda self contradictory huh?
Wasn't it grammar?
Misuse of apostrophe completely changing meaning. D'oh.
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@Canes4life The Captain.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think Cane is a better 7 than Savea. Cane is probably better against some teams but I don't believe he is out right a better 7.
I don't think the combination of starting Savea and Cane is a strong well rounded trio. My preference would be to start one or the other and not shoehorn them in to get our 'best' players on the park.
I would be more open to it if Akira was playing to his potential (lineout may still be too short) but I can't see any other loosie in NZ filling the gap. Grace would add height but no real carrying ability leaving Ardie to be the only ball carrier in the trio. Dalton may be a goer but I still worry about his concrete feet. Maybe Sotutu but he's a complete rookie.
It does look like it's going to be Foster's short term solution.
@Toddy Hi Toddy, I have seen Cullen play weekly since he was 13 and he is a ball runner as well. After that game vs the Blues when he was man of the match, you would have noticed the next week the Crusaders did use him a slightly different way as a runner. The beauty of Cullen is his brain first, then his athleticism, he understands game plans when others do not and can adjust his game accordingly. He is exceptionally rugby bright, one best players I have seen or worked with in this regard. This is why the Crusaders like him and players similar to him. His ball running is immense and he has a pace and can change direction at ease. Almost like a young Kieran Read. You will see this as he develops. What is best position is we are not sure, we were surprised last year they used him at lock as much as they did as his height and player type seems to more suit six. Early on he played seven a lot also, but we hear he is getting lined up as an 8 in the young Kieran Read mould where he could play tight or loose depending on the game plan. Saying all this, he is still 20, so I might favour a Tom Robinson yet if he continues to develop.
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@Toddy Hi Toddy, I have seen Cullen play weekly since he was 13 and he is a ball runner as well. After that game vs the Blues when he was man of the match, you would have noticed the next week the Crusaders did use him a slightly different way as a runner. The beauty of Cullen is his brain first, then his athleticism, he understands game plans when others do not and can adjust his game accordingly. He is exceptionally rugby bright, one best players I have seen or worked with in this regard. This is why the Crusaders like him and players similar to him. His ball running is immense and he has a pace and can change direction at ease. Almost like a young Kieran Read. You will see this as he develops. What is best position is we are not sure, we were surprised last year they used him at lock as much as they did as his height and player type seems to more suit six. Early on he played seven a lot also, but we hear he is getting lined up as an 8 in the young Kieran Read mould where he could play tight or loose depending on the game plan. Saying all this, he is still 20, so I might favour a Tom Robinson yet if he continues to develop.
@erps said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
Saying all this, he is still 20, so I might favour a Tom Robinson yet if he continues to develop.
great post,
just my flogging a dead horse moment, that young forwards often fade as it takes a few years for the body to accommodate the physicality of top level competition. It's just grinding, and without proper offseasons, can be really hard to get used to. Injuries and loss of form are real, and you have to be managed
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Totally agree, what surprised me at the World Cup was the two young England flankers and how good they were. Superb talents but how long can they keep that up as they age playing the amount they have to over there. I think we often forget about when were 20 -24 ourselves and the maturity/lack of maturity we had. Not many of us grow up to 25 plus do we but then we criticise a young player for a couple or errors. For a lot of them this is first couple years away from parents and teachers protecting them from the big wide world. Often they have never been criticised or dropped and just pandered to by all but are now not. Kaino took 4-5 years, Brooke was 29 before he was a regular and so on with others. This is why I think Jordie Barrett will eventually get there but it make take a couple of years of pruning the rose so to speak.
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Totally agree, what surprised me at the World Cup was the two young England flankers and how good they were. Superb talents but how long can they keep that up as they age playing the amount they have to over there. I think we often forget about when were 20 -24 ourselves and the maturity/lack of maturity we had. Not many of us grow up to 25 plus do we but then we criticise a young player for a couple or errors. For a lot of them this is first couple years away from parents and teachers protecting them from the big wide world. Often they have never been criticised or dropped and just pandered to by all but are now not. Kaino took 4-5 years, Brooke was 29 before he was a regular and so on with others. This is why I think Jordie Barrett will eventually get there but it make take a couple of years of pruning the rose so to speak.
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just reflecting on Sam Cane. It's been a while since the AB captain wasn't a point of difference, the kind of guy most fans want on their teams. Most international fans, with some justification, would not see Cane as an upgrade on their current 7.
We all know and respect what Cane brings to the ABs, but he's a role player rather than a standout. It's a bit of a difference after the Tana-Richie-Read years (and that's a lot of years).
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just reflecting on Sam Cane. It's been a while since the AB captain wasn't a point of difference, the kind of guy most fans want on their teams. Most international fans, with some justification, would not see Cane as an upgrade on their current 7.
We all know and respect what Cane brings to the ABs, but he's a role player rather than a standout. It's a bit of a difference after the Tana-Richie-Read years (and that's a lot of years).
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
just reflecting on Sam Cane. It's been a while since the AB captain wasn't a point of difference, the kind of guy most fans want on their teams. Most international fans, with some justification, would not see Cane as an upgrade on their current 7.
You thought Read was a standout and point of difference when he was captain?
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@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
just reflecting on Sam Cane. It's been a while since the AB captain wasn't a point of difference, the kind of guy most fans want on their teams. Most international fans, with some justification, would not see Cane as an upgrade on their current 7.
You thought Read was a standout and point of difference when he was captain?
@nzzp said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
@mariner4life said in Sam Cane - All Blacks Captain:
just reflecting on Sam Cane. It's been a while since the AB captain wasn't a point of difference, the kind of guy most fans want on their teams. Most international fans, with some justification, would not see Cane as an upgrade on their current 7.
You thought Read was a standout and point of difference when he was captain?
initially, yes. It's only a couple of years since he and Retallic were the added extras that made our pack go from good to great. I can't remember the game, i think it was Bledisloe, where Aus matched us up front, except for the extra bits those two provided.
Last 2 years? Not so much. He was lucky he was the skipper, and there was literally no one else
