AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?
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@Bones said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Telea will have to sever ties with South Africa and Samoa.
Anyone got any inside oil on whether Mark Telea would prefer to play for SA, Samoa or the ABs?
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@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
If Ben Smith is the benchmark, then Jordan has plenty of time to develop into that player. There's no need to rush him in at this stage when there are plenty of other options.
That being said, they could start him on the right wing in the same way they did with Israel Dagg (and Ben Smith for that matter).
Jordan is an outstanding young talent but I would like to see more of him under pressure to see how he copes. So far he's had a good run in dominant teams ( Ta$man, Crusaders).
While playing him on the wing does make sense I am reminded of the Waikato- Ta$man game last year when Jordan was badly exposed twice on defence playing on the right wing leading to tries.
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
If Ben Smith is the benchmark, then Jordan has plenty of time to develop into that player. There's no need to rush him in at this stage when there are plenty of other options.
That being said, they could start him on the right wing in the same way they did with Israel Dagg (and Ben Smith for that matter).
Jordan is an outstanding young talent but I would like to see more of him under pressure to see how he copes. So far he's had a good run in dominant teams ( Ta$man, Crusaders).
While playing him on the wing does make sense I am reminded of the Waikato- Ta$man game last year when Jordan was badly exposed twice on defence playing on the right wing leading to tries.
He is a far better full back than right wing IMO. He looks lost in defense there.
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I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
@voodoo no need for concern, we arent playing RWC pool matches, so no way in hell will those 3 start a test for us this year.
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I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
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@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
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@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
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Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
@gt12 haven’t seen him miss many tackles or not take the high ball. I’ve seen him knock the ball on but that’s neither here or nor there.
Whether he’s playing for the Saders or some other team it doesn’t matter because the guy has pace that we need for both attack and defence. He’s a dangerous threat every time he gets the ball.
As to his character, well that’s something the new coaches will have to make a call on.
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@gt12 haven’t seen him miss many tackles or not take the high ball. I’ve seen him knock the ball on but that’s neither here or nor there.
Whether he’s playing for the Saders or some other team it doesn’t matter because the guy has pace that we need for both attack and defence. He’s a dangerous threat every time he gets the ball.
As to his character, well that’s something the new coaches will have to make a call on.
Going by stats from Fox for this year, for example, he's way down on running metres where Telea leads; does OK for line breaks (6 after Ioane who leads for NZ players with 10); is 4th for tackles busts after Telea, Ioane, and Bridge; leads in offloads; is third equal for turnovers (after Bridge and Telea - and is tied with Ioane); is 7th for handling errors (Bridge leads with 11, Ioane 7, Telea 6, Reece 5); has a YC and two penalties; and leads in missed tackles (8, with Ioane and Telea both having 7 misses).
So, they are all a much of a muchness.
He's not clearly put his hand up and shown that he should be retained. I can't see why questioning whether he is the right man to hold his position or not is very controversial.
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Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
Why?
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@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
Why?
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
Why?
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey.
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@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
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@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey. He is tiny (although very strong) and I don't see him as a great fit in an era when we need at least one wing who is a fullback/wing.
That means he has to be better than others who are power/man beaters and I think Clark is (definitely will be) better in that role.
Some things in his favor are his relationship with Mo'unga, especially on cross kicks, and his ability to work hard and make something out of nothing. However, that happens far less at AB level and he can be put under pressure from runners and high kicks. He doesn't have the strength of others either.
Mark Telea has similar issues, as does Ioane - interestingly he also has had a few missed tackles this year too.
I personally think that Reece wouldn't have gone close if he hadn't been playing for the Crusaders. But, that's neither here nor there.
IMO, both wing spots should be up for grabs.
Why?
Beyond the fact that he is a poach and a wife beater, I think he misses enough tackles, turns over the ball, and makes enough handling errors, whilst not being super Mr safe under the high ball, that we should be asking questions about whether he is the best person for the 14 jersey.
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Certainly think it's true that some posters on here judge players from the Crusaders/ Canterbury more harshly than players from elsewhere.
But there are others who rate Reuban Thorne above Jerome Kaino and Scott Hamilton on a par to Jonah Lomu for reasons of provincial loyalty.
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Team I'd go for if there was a Test in a couple of weeks:
Moody, Taylor, Ofa T, Sam Whitelock, Patrick Tuipulotu, Papali'i, Cane (c), Sotutu, A. Smith,B. Barrett ,C. Clarke, ALB, Goodhue, Reece (maybe Telea), J. Barrett (or W. Jordan)
Bench 16. D. Coles. 17. Karl T (or Hodgman) 18. Lualala 19. Dickson 20. A. Savea 21. TJP 22. R. Mo'unga 23. R. Ioane@sparky said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Team I'd go for if there was a Test in a couple of weeks:
Moody, Taylor, Ofa T, Sam Whitelock, Patrick Tuipulotu, Papali'i, Cane (c), Sotutu, A. Smith,B. Barrett ,C. Clarke, ALB, Goodhue, Reece (maybe Telea), J. Barrett (or W. Jordan)
Bench 16. D. Coles. 17. Karl T (or Hodgman) 18. Lualala 19. Dickson 20. A. Savea 21. TJP 22. R. Mo'unga 23. R. IoaneLove Reece's speed, work rate and finishing. If Telea can match him those areas and develop into a better player in contact, maybe he'll overtake him as AB Right Wing but Reece for me still has an extra edge.
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Going by stats from Fox for this year, for example, he's way down on running metres where Telea leads; does OK for line breaks (6 after Ioane who leads for NZ players with 10); is 4th for tackles busts after Telea, Ioane, and Bridge; leads in offloads; is third equal for turnovers (after Bridge and Telea - and is tied with Ioane); is 7th for handling errors (Bridge leads with 11, Ioane 7, Telea 6, Reece 5); has a YC and two penalties; and leads in missed tackles (8, with Ioane and Telea both having 7 misses).
So, they are all a much of a muchness.
He's not clearly put his hand up and shown that he should be retained. I can't see why questioning whether he is the right man to hold his position or not is very controversial.
@gt12 it’s not controversial to question at all. On a similar note the counter is that an incumbent AB that has played pretty well so far in just the first couple of games is still right up there to take that starting spot. That’s not controversial either.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@voodoo said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I'm hugely concerned by this talk of Clarke, Jordan and Dmac making up our back 3. Inexperienced and eratic does not bode well for a tight test match.
I think it would be Jordan or Dmac.
I'd suspect that if we see Clarke, we might see B Barrett back there in 15.
I want to see if Clarke or Ioane can play 14 - I'm not convinced by Reece or Bridge and I think the Auckland boys are better.
I know Bridge isn’t flavour of the month, but what’s wrong with Reece. I thought he showed enough that doesn’t warrant discarding yet.
My back 3 is B. Barrett, Ioane and Reece.
The problem is that he plays on the right wing. You know that it's an unspoken Fern Rule that you must play at least one safe white boy on the wing. If Reece plays on the right, that means that the SWB must play on the left, which leaves Bridge as the only available option.
Or gulp Jordie Barrett. He did start a test last year on the right wing too.
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Going by stats from Fox for this year, for example, he's way down on running metres where Telea leads; does OK for line breaks (6 after Ioane who leads for NZ players with 10); is 4th for tackles busts after Telea, Ioane, and Bridge; leads in offloads; is third equal for turnovers (after Bridge and Telea - and is tied with Ioane); is 7th for handling errors (Bridge leads with 11, Ioane 7, Telea 6, Reece 5); has a YC and two penalties; and leads in missed tackles (8, with Ioane and Telea both having 7 misses).
So, they are all a much of a muchness.
He's not clearly put his hand up and shown that he should be retained. I can't see why questioning whether he is the right man to hold his position or not is very controversial.
