Flag

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="559462" data-time="1455842606">
<div>
Just reading the comments makes me think New Zealand shouldn't have a fucking flag at all. Whining fluffybunnys. Like this <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/?comment_id=10153952446822002&reply_comment_id=10153952733392002&comment_tracking={"tn"%3A"R9"}'>Alex Ferguson fuckstick</a> who is unaware Facebook is no longer 'couple of dickheads sitting in a garage'.
 
Everytime I think I'd make a benevolent dictator I read social media commentary and realise I'd be a murderous tyrant.
</div>
</blockquote>
Fuck that is depressing reading. It seems like the stupider the person the more certain they are that they're right.
 
I don't much care about the flag and for that reason would probably just go with the status quo but I have to say some of these idiots' arguments are pushing me towards supporting a change. Except I suspect there are just as many loons on the "Don't change the flag" FB flag.
 
That's the problem with referenda, if you ask people what they think they might just do tell you.

Rancid Schnitzel

The anti-change brigade are an odd coalition of traditionalists who want to keep the flag that has represented the nation for over 100 years (I have sympathy for this) and people who probably want a change but hate John Key so much that they will fight it tooth and nail to defeat it (in other words not the principle, but the side, how unusual).
 
I don't want change just for the sake of change and IMHO the suggested designs are crap. (Proper) silver fern on black background or bust. But if people vote for change I won't go off like Nepia when the word leftard is uttered.
 
BTW, there is plenty of mention about "colonial relic". Considering the country is named after a province in Holland (Holland FFS), shouldn't we then officially change the name of the country? We already have a very nice alternative, although Christ knows what the Red Peak crowd would come up with.

Rembrandt

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="559476" data-time="1455844875">
Fuck that is depressing reading. It seems like the stupider the person the more certain they are that they're right. 
I don't much care about the flag and for that reason would probably just go with the status quo but I have to say some of these idiots' arguments are pushing me towards supporting a change.</blockquote>
 
Yep that sealed it for me. I'm yet to see a frothy mouth change supporter. my brother in law who is a reasonable rank in the army had to do a debate on it and was assigned the argument of pro-change. He started off against it but after actually doing some research is now fully for it. He did say he is by far the minority in there though.

taniwharugby

Education, similarly the TPPA, there is some gaps that needed filling, but then the frothy mouth anti-Key brigade wouldn't listen anyway...tell them they had won $10,000 and they'd think Key had stolen it from a bunch of homeless people!

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rembrandt" data-cid="559482" data-time="1455845566">Yep that sealed it for me. I'm yet to see a frothy mouth change supporter. my brother in law who is a reasonable rank in the army had to do a debate on it and was assigned the argument of pro-change. He started off against it but after actually doing some research is now fully for it. He did say he is by far the minority in there though.</blockquote> That's unsurprising given how traditional and predisposed to group think it is as an institution. The problem for a flag change is the most obvious one is taken. I'd have simply gone with removing the Blue Ensign: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/msXanhAl.jpg" alt="msXanhAl.jpg"> Even of the proposed alternatives I'd clean it up: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/a4LQbDk.jpg" alt="a4LQbDk.jpg">

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="559478" data-time="1455845314">
<div>
The anti-change brigade are an odd coalition of traditionalists who want to keep the flag that has represented the nation for over 100 years (I have sympathy for this) and people who probably want a change but hate John Key so much that they will fight it tooth and nail to defeat it (in other words not the principle, but the side, how unusual).
 
I don't want change just for the sake of change and IMHO the suggested designs are crap. (Proper) silver fern on black background or bust. But if people vote for change I won't go off like Nepia when the word leftard is uttered.
 
BTW, there is plenty of mention about "colonial relic". Considering the country is named after a province in Holland (Holland FFS), shouldn't we then officially change the name of the country? We already have a very nice alternative, although Christ knows what the Red Peak crowd would come up with.
</div>
</blockquote>
Sheesh, your idea of going off and mine have a completely different threshold - but considering you're a noted rightard it's unsurprising you wouldn't go off at the mention of leftard. ;)

MajorRage

I was wondering why my WT relatives were starting to post their whole "NZ soldiers died defending the flag... " garbage again. I guessed the next referendum must be approaching.

taniwharugby

I got shot in the balls defending a black flag, but at half time we swapped sides and I had to defend white flag, I had no preference over which flag I defended, although it was just paint ball!

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="559498" data-time="1455849256">
<div>
Sheesh, your idea of going off and mine have a completely different threshold - but considering you're a noted rightard it's unsurprising you wouldn't go off at the mention of leftard. ;)
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Just admit to it and move on you dirty leftard.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="559504" data-time="1455851354">
<div>
Just admit to it and move on you dirty leftard.
</div>
</blockquote>
Admit to being a leftard? Hell, I'd tattoo that on my forehead for the off chance someone might mistake me for a rightard.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="559532" data-time="1455859537">
<div>
Admit to being a leftard? Hell, I'd tattoo that on my forehead for the off chance someone might mistake me for a rightard.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 :mocking: You're not really a leftard Nepia, Bomber Bradbury is a leftard, Chris Trotter is a leftard, John Campbell is a massive leftard. Lets look at how having a leftard govt pans out.........
 
The bank reported that Venezuelan inflation hit 180.9 percent in 2015, one of the highest rates in the world, while the economy contracted 5.7 percent.
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-economy-idUSKCN0VR1RI'>http://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-economy-idUSKCN0VR1RI</a>
 
 
 
Anyway, back to the flag. I'm still gutted by the RSA backing the status quo. They don't put the current flag on soldiers graves, they have a fern on them. Its a damn shame that this has become a political football for Key hating leftards and conservative people who think Australias flag 2.0 should represent us.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="559476" data-time="1455844875">
Fuck that is depressing reading. It seems like the stupider the person the more certain they are that they're right.</blockquote>
 
Is that Dunning Kruger effect or some such?

Billy Tell

The worst thing about it all (well I don't know about worst, maybe being a drama queen), but I read somewhere that support for the current flag is highest among young people.

taniwharugby

my son is in the Army and he is posting stuff on FB about the soldiers dying under the flag, despite so often the image is of a grave with the fern...but his step-father is an army man and his father before him...

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="559462" data-time="1455842606">
<div>
Just reading the comments makes me think New Zealand shouldn't have a fucking flag at all. Whining fluffybunnys. Like this <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.facebook.com/nzflag/videos/10153951003712002/?comment_id=10153952446822002&reply_comment_id=10153952733392002&comment_tracking={"tn"%3A"R9"}'>Alex Ferguson fuckstick</a> who is unaware Facebook is no longer 'couple of dickheads sitting in a garage'.
 
Everytime I think I'd make a benevolent dictator I read social media commentary and realise I'd be a murderous tyrant.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
If I was ever made dictator I'd make "Brogan " drop the r from his name. What an arseclown.
 
Brogan Conway Dont change the flag john key is a twat u really want spent on a stupid flag our grandparents faught for our flag and country and u wana change it we have better things to spend it on

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="559559" data-time="1455862178">
<div>
my son is in the Army and he is posting stuff on FB about the soldiers dying under the flag, despite so often the image is of a grave with the fern...but his step-father is an army man and his father before him...
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Ask him what this is all about.
 
 
<img src="http://www.brewster.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/War-graves-by-moonlight.jpg" alt="War-graves-by-moonlight.jpg">
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.brewster.co.nz/2011/07/143-war-graves-by-moonlight/'>http://www.brewster.co.nz/2011/07/143-war-graves-by-moonlight/</a>

taniwharugby

ha, I tend to stay away from getting into political stuff on FB, although there are the odd complete fucktards (trump both left and right tards) that I simply cant ignore on some pages.

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="559532" data-time="1455859537">
Admit to being a leftard? Hell, I'd tattoo that on my forehead for the off chance someone might mistake me for a rightard.</blockquote>
 
No chance of that. Being Maori, your neck wouldn't be red enough.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="559566" data-time="1455863224">
<div>
No chance of that. Being Maori, your neck wouldn't be red enough.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
If it wasn't for Damien McKenzie, Tony Brown, my two blonde cousins, and MN5's missus I'd be the whitest Maori around. ;)
 
Also, being Maori hasn't hindered Hekia and Paula in their quest to be the rightiest, tightiest in the Nats.

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="559484" data-time="1455846347">
<div>
That's unsurprising given how traditional and predisposed to group think it is as an institution. 
 
The problem for a flag change is the most obvious one is taken. I'd have simply gone with removing the Blue Ensign: 
 <img src="http://i.imgur.com/msXanhAl.jpg" alt="msXanhAl.jpg"> 
 
Even of the proposed alternatives I'd clean it up: 
 <img src="http://i.imgur.com/a4LQbDk.jpg" alt="a4LQbDk.jpg">
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I'd still like a better fern design but that's better.
 
I was originally going to stick with the old flag in the second round but I've come around since then. I still don't think it's a great flag but I figure it'll be a hell of a lot easier to make a few changes to the new flag than it'll be to go through this process all over again.
 
Really have to say this process has been a mess though. Would've been a hell of a lot better to have a refinement process between the first and second rounds IMO.

The Silver Fern

Flag