AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?
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@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Crucial said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Word. Clarke had to be in, he is a real weapon with all the extra skills.
Needs a touch more experience and he looks like he could be Bridge with a bit more power.
Clarke is young, but needs to get himself more involved if the ball isn't going his way.
how many games had our starting wingers in a RWC semi final played? combined? If you are good enough...
I'm pretty over the "safe" wing spot. I think the trench warfare of test rugby needs a couple of game breakers out wide.
Agree with this. Look at the Pom and Safe wings at the 2019 RWC and every one of them had that "extra" ability to beat a man, which can be a crucial outlet in a tight test match. Look at the value the Poms got out of their wings in that semi as compared to the 3/5 of fuck all we got from ours. It was almost like they'd swapped jerseys before the match. Similarly, the Saffa wings were absolutely terrific in the final, especially late on when defenders are fatigues and there to be beaten by someone capable of using a bit of footwork.
Maybe apart from Jonny May who was a cripple that got run down by Scott Barrett.
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bovidae said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Crucial said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Word. Clarke had to be in, he is a real weapon with all the extra skills.
Needs a touch more experience and he looks like he could be Bridge with a bit more power.
Clarke is young, but needs to get himself more involved if the ball isn't going his way.
how many games had our starting wingers in a RWC semi final played? combined? If you are good enough...
I'm pretty over the "safe" wing spot. I think the trench warfare of test rugby needs a couple of game breakers out wide.
Agree with this. Look at the Pom and Safe wings at the 2019 RWC and every one of them had that "extra" ability to beat a man, which can be a crucial outlet in a tight test match. Look at the value the Poms got out of their wings in that semi as compared to the 3/5 of fuck all we got from ours. It was almost like they'd swapped jerseys before the match. Similarly, the Saffa wings were absolutely terrific in the final, especially late on when defenders are fatigues and there to be beaten by someone capable of using a bit of footwork.
Maybe apart from Jonny May who was a cripple that got run down by Scott Barrett.
Granted, in that match, yes. But, he's generally got that very express pace that allows him to beat a man consistently and turn a kick chase into a real weapon. For all George's ability to run really fast in a straight line, I'm not sure we have have that (although in fairness to George this may have more to do with a shit kicking game).
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@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
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@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
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One hopes. I think the bench is crucial too.
Allowing me to pick some injured players, I think we would be very dangerous if we can get the following players in form:
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Moody 17. Big Karl /Moli
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Taylor 16. Coles/Aumua
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Ofa 18. Ta'avao/ Lomax
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Patty T 19. Robinson/Barrett
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Whitelock
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Ioane /Robinson 20. Savea
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Cane
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Sotutu
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Smith 21. TJP
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Barrett 22. Mo'unga
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Ioane
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ALB
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Goodhue
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Clarke / Bridge (I really really want Alaimalo to stand up for this spot, but he's miles away right now)
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Dmac / Jordan 23 Barrett
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
One hopes. I think the bench is crucial too.
Allowing me to pick some injured players, I think we would be very dangerous if we can get the following players in form:
- Ofa 18. Ta'avao/ Lomax
I don't see Angus in the frame. Right time, right place for him last year.
Now that Cron is gone we might see Ofa used as a TH prop for the ABs, instead of playing most of his minutes on the LH side.
I would prefer Laulala to start at TH and bring Ofa off the bench. That is the best way to use both players. Lomax has gone backwards this year.
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Reiko needs to be left at centre now. He has made the move a bit earlier than most wingers but now he has, he needs to develop the experience there. Moving him around again will be a backward step.
@Crucial said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Reiko needs to be left at centre now. He has made the move a bit earlier than most wingers but now he has, he needs to develop the experience there. Moving him around again will be a backward step.
Kinda agree. His confidence seemed to go in 2019 and he's too good a player to ignore and needs handling carefully.
Can't see him being the starting 13 over Goodhue at the moment though. I think his best position in any new AB squad is as a 13 who can also play 11 & 14.
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@Crucial said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
Reiko needs to be left at centre now. He has made the move a bit earlier than most wingers but now he has, he needs to develop the experience there. Moving him around again will be a backward step.
Kinda agree. His confidence seemed to go in 2019 and he's too good a player to ignore and needs handling carefully.
Can't see him being the starting 13 over Goodhue at the moment though. I think his best position in any new AB squad is as a 13 who can also play 11 & 14.
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@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
One hopes. I think the bench is crucial too.
Allowing me to pick some injured players, I think we would be very dangerous if we can get the following players in form:
- Ofa 18. Ta'avao/ Lomax
I don't see Angus in the frame. Right time, right place for him last year.
Now that Cron is gone we might see Ofa used as a TH prop for the ABs, instead of playing most of his minutes on the LH side.
I would prefer Laulala to start at TH and bring Ofa off the bench. That is the best way to use both players. Lomax has gone backwards this year.
I agree actually - Moli would be a way better bet for the future if he went back to TH.
I don’t think Laulala is playing well. He’s been a liability with his handling and does piss all with the ball in hand.
I’m not sure how great he is as a lifter and I’ll need to watch his clean work better, but I think Ofa is playing better all around.
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@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
Beaudy is quite large for a ten, and all nines are midgets nowadays, so not sure about this point?
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@Victor-Meldrew it worked for Kahui
@canefan said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Victor-Meldrew it worked for Kahui
Don't disagree, just think he needs handling carefully.
Kahui - what a loss he was.
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I agree actually - Moli would be a way better bet for the future if he went back to TH.
I don’t think Laulala is playing well. He’s been a liability with his handling and does piss all with the ball in hand.
I’m not sure how great he is as a lifter and I’ll need to watch his clean work better, but I think Ofa is playing better all around.
@gt12 I have thought Laulala has been better as a ball-carrier in the last 2 games than he has before. All relative I know, but he has taken the ball at speed and made some metres. He also doesn't give away as many scrum penalties as Ofa does. Ross has been the Chiefs prop having the dropsies.
Big Karl offers you the punch off the bench on the LH side. Moli is a big unit and the most mobile of the props along with Ofa. We've got less depth at LH so I can understand why he was asked to play there.
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@gt12 I have thought Laulala has been better as a ball-carrier in the last 2 games than he has before. All relative I know, but he has taken the ball at speed and made some metres. He also doesn't give away as many scrum penalties as Ofa does. Ross has been the Chiefs prop having the dropsies.
Big Karl offers you the punch off the bench on the LH side. Moli is a big unit and the most mobile of the props along with Ofa. We've got less depth at LH so I can understand why he was asked to play there.
Against the Crusaders I think Laulala ran for about 6 metres off 4 runs, and made as many tackles as he missed (3/3) while giving away two penalties.
Against the Saders, Ofa went for a bit less metres (3), And gave away two penalties, but made 13 tackles and missed 1.
I’m not sure there is significant support for Ofa being a penalty magnet nor Laulala being a safer scrummager - and if he is he probably loses it by being offside or other indiscretions and through missed tackles.
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I agree, but I’d like to see us getting props who can use their size too.
One of the biggest things that Ireland and England had were ball runners in the front 3, and we’ve got fuck all out of ours for too long.
@gt12 said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
I agree, but I’d like to see us getting props who can use their size too.
One of the biggest things that Ireland and England had were ball runners in the front 3, and we’ve got fuck all out of ours for too long.
Agree with this. If we can't more out of the fat blokes, we have a little bit more flexibility in the types of players we pick in our back 5.
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Against the Crusaders I think Laulala ran for about 6 metres off 4 runs, and made as many tackles as he missed (3/3) while giving away two penalties.
Against the Saders, Ofa went for a bit less metres (3), And gave away two penalties, but made 13 tackles and missed 1.
I’m not sure there is significant support for Ofa being a penalty magnet nor Laulala being a safer scrummager - and if he is he probably loses it by being offside or other indiscretions and through missed tackles.
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@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
Beaudy is quite large for a ten, and all nines are midgets nowadays, so not sure about this point?
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
Beaudy is quite large for a ten, and all nines are midgets nowadays, so not sure about this point?
You assume Beauty will be at 10...?
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Aaron
Beaudy
Clarke
Jordie
Ioane
Reece
Jordan -
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
Beaudy is quite large for a ten, and all nines are midgets nowadays, so not sure about this point?
You assume Beauty will be at 10...?
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@junior said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Chris-B said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Tim said in AB squad for the Bledisloe Cup?:
@Bones ALB/Goodhue, ALB/Ioane, Goodhue/Ioane, and Goodhue/ALB all lack a dominant midfield ball carrier, and rely on a player who looks to take the outside break.
we don't really have one in the country because we are at that point in our cycle where we abhor "bashers" and think skill and fitness is absolutely everything
which it absolutely is for Super Rugby if I'm being fair.
I agree totally with that philosophy. Size is important - you need some big guys in the backs to get you over the gain line, you need a big blindside in the forwards to take lineout ball and to provide bulk on defence, and if you have too many small guys in the backs the opposition will get over the gain line too frequently and easily.
Yes and with certified midgets playing at 9 and 10 (and possibly also 11), we need a decent amount of size in the backrow and midfield to balance that out.
Beaudy is quite large for a ten, and all nines are midgets nowadays, so not sure about this point?
You assume Beauty will be at 10...?
Yes I do
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@gt12 How many runs/metres did Moody make in those 2 games? None of our props are great in this area.
I’m glad you are coming around to my way of thinking. I’m not pleased with Moody either, but Moody’s problems don’t make up for Laulala’s weaknesses.
But to answer the question:
Against Blues:
6 runs, 8 metres
8 tackles, 2 misses
2 penaltiesAgainst Landers:
5 runs, 12 metres
7 tackles made, 3 missed, 3 turnovers
2 penaltiesAgainst Chiefs:
No runs, no metres - very Owen Franks like
7 tackles made, 3 missed
No penalties ties -
I’m glad you are coming around to my way of thinking. I’m not pleased with Moody either, but Moody’s problems don’t make up for Laulala’s weaknesses.
But to answer the question:
Against Blues:
6 runs, 8 metres
8 tackles, 2 misses
2 penaltiesAgainst Landers:
5 runs, 12 metres
7 tackles made, 3 missed, 3 turnovers
2 penaltiesAgainst Chiefs:
No runs, no metres - very Owen Franks like
7 tackles made, 3 missed
No penalties ties@gt12 Moody misses a lot of tackles. I decided to punish myself the other night and watched the RWC semi again, and the two things that stood out in terms of defence was just how incredibly passive our defence was and how many tackles Moody missed. Unfortunately there's nobody better at this stage so he stays at loosehead. I have been relatively impressed with his carrying game in SRA but he needs to improve his tackling.
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@gt12 Moody misses a lot of tackles. I decided to punish myself the other night and watched the RWC semi again, and the two things that stood out in terms of defence was just how incredibly passive our defence was and how many tackles Moody missed. Unfortunately there's nobody better at this stage so he stays at loosehead. I have been relatively impressed with his carrying game in SRA but he needs to improve his tackling.
